Not speaking as a moderator here, but just simply as a QL member. It would seem a number of forums are "vacant" and the only traffic comes from spammers. No one notices immediately so their spam is allowed to stand too long, attracting yet more abusers.
Maybe it's time to mothball the Debate Forum and the Workshop Forum, as an example? They seem to have served a purpose at one time, but no more.
Other ideas?
------------------------------ The opposite of joy is not sorrow. It is unbelief. ~ Leslie Weatherhead Picture me with my ground teeth stalking joy--fully armed too, as it's a highly dangerous quest. ~ Flannery O'Connor
The spammers are running roughshod because most or the moderators are not being attentive to the forums. I would agree that the Debate forum has gone to pot. The Poetry Forum has not had any activity or contributions from the moderator in months. Activity in General Discussion is also low. What appears to be odd is that the traffic counter at the bottom of the forum indicates there are about 100 unregistered users online at any given time.
People are too busy blogging to fool with the forums now days. Almost all of the forums that I might frequent in the past are now "ghost forums" of yesteryear.
Posts: 3142 | Location: The Volunteer State | Registered: 06-25-03
The literature forum is pretty quiet. Always is. It seems to get spammed in the 6 hours I'm away from a computer each day. I could see it merging with the Learning & Knowledge forum easily. Maybe Debate could merge with those forums, too? If we went through and prefaced each subject with "DEBATE:"?
I agree about the Workshop forum. The idea for it came at a time when we had so many posts every day that we couldn't sort through finalized stuff, and brainstormed ideas. Merging that with Poetry & Prose and The Original Writer's club would make one large comprehensive forum that goes back to the beginning of writing on QL... which would be fun. This is just brainstorming, of course. I have no idea how difficult that would be, or hard it would be to undo it if we suddenly get bombarded again. Phantom is right... people are blogging their writing, not posting it. For now. But that could change easily.
All that I ask about this preceding post is that it is not edited or removed by the moderator staff. I have no control if you do wish to do either but this is my opinion on the issue raised forth.
As a point of interest:
I still check the forums regularly but I cannot muster the will to reply very often. I don’t know if it’s the atmosphere or changes made in my life but most times I want to critique the poetry section (at minimum) and just fail to find the will. Barring further speculation as to why this might be on my end, I’ll share some of the reasons why I think it might be on QL’s end.
1. I don’t feel the same atmosphere at Quoteland that I used to. And I don’t just mean based on the past rifts that ran through the site, I mean particularly lately. It has felt like many members bring inherent biases against certain other members when replying and I won’t leave out the fact that this includes moderators as well. We all have busy lives to one extent or another (some less, some more).I will be the first to admit I have biases against some members. The biggest bias I have currently is towards Phantom Delta. This is why I avoid his posts generally because I do not want to stir anything up and want the general site cohesion to increase (nothing against you Phantom personally and truly. I would be glad to explain anything to you in a PT if you desire).
2. Spam. I notice the spam very frequently when I log in. I know the moderators are busy and have a lot to do in their personal lives but if I can constantly see it (and I used to point it out frequently but lost the will when I seemed to be the only one) maybe some of the mods simply don’t have the time to devote to quoteland any more and should re-access whether they can fulfill this commitment. The unfortunate passing of Steve is a gap not likely to be soon filled but perhaps it is time to introduce some moderators that have more time to spend on the forums (and no, I am not suggesting myself for this position. In all honesty I probably would not deny it but I am not seeking personal gain in noting this opinion).
--------Fair, I know you guys often do your best and are working as best you can but with the amount of spam I notice alone I have to think it’s beyond the current scope of the mod staff ability to properly police the site. Either this or individual mods do not venture outside their own forums to erase such spam as it crops up. This alone is another problem because the site becomes more segregated.
3. I do not think eliminating the debate and literature forums is a good idea. Their merger, in my opinion, would blur the lines between what is meant for learning and information and what is meant for debate. Even with a preface in the title of a topic it becomes easier for someone to forget if such a preface was present when they read a topic that inflates their passionate responses. Think of how many members would never have become actively engaged in QL had there not been a forum like Debate, Literature or others that have disappeared over time? We all know members that started in one place and branched out from there, enriching the experience that is QL beyond their original intentions.
Yes, there has also been fallout from some members. But this is an inevitable consequence of inviting many people with different backgrounds and viewpoints to share the same space. Instead of absolute strict moderation (which is necessary in some cases), why don’t we evoke an atmosphere of tolerance and amicability? By establishing our own set culture and making it taboo in the eyes of our online society those behaviors the site has struggled with from members, we should generally see problems only from new members (yes, this is slightly idealized in this section, I have no illusions about that).
4. Merging the Writers forums may have a different effect in my opinion. I think the Old writers club should remain separate as a tribute to members who are either no longer with us, or who have moved on to greener pastures. The current poetry and prose forum may benefit from a merger with the workshop forum. When I reply to an author’s works, I personally like to give my opinion across the entire body of the work. This means, most of the time, a detailed critique from me. I have at times received negative feedback from people who simply wanted a standardized and un-enriching “You did good here.” Merging this forum with workshop may once again bring in the notion that its ok to give your full thoughts even if the author did not state a direct desire to have their poem looked at in such a manner. I have felt more and more that people don’t want to enhance their writings or learn from a different perspective but seem to simply want to feel good about something they have done. There is nothing wrong about wanting to feel good but I sincerely hope that is not the opinion held by the majority of active members.
I am giving my detailed thoughts on this issue because QL was once a haven for me when I was younger and it helped me to pull myself up from some darker periods in my life. QL is important, or at least the notion of what is used to be to me still is. I leave this reply in the site’s hands and fully expect to be criticized on several points I have made. This is fine and I do not mind. I only ask, as I have above, that this remain unedited.
I realized my mistake in suggesting the debate forum merge almost instantly. It's a mistake borne of the fact that I don't venture into the Debate Forum that often anymore, and so I really shouldn't have offered an opinion at all! (Sorry about that. Sometimes, though, ideas pop in my head and I forget that they sometimes have no basis in reality! )
As per the moderators not venturing in other's forums for spam-- I don't think so. I know several moderators have handled things in my forum with notice, and I'm perpetually grateful to be a part of such a great team. Sometimes, though, the spam is simply hard to spot unless you're browsing through every new post on each forum... or are available all the time. It's this reason that makes me think some merging would be great.
I still like the idea of putting all the Writer's things back together. For the reason you stated, but also because I like bumping some older posts during timely moments. It feels a little silly to bump something, (even something wonderful), when it's in a closed forum. My only fear (hope?) on this merge, as I mentioned before, is that it would re-inspire people to post regularly ... thus creating the same problem that made us separate it all in the first place. Too much stuff for one forum.
I still check the forums regularly but I cannot muster the will to reply very often. I don’t know if it’s the atmosphere or changes made in my life but most times I want to critique the poetry section (at minimum) and just fail to find the will
Gosh, that's so much how I feel at the moment. I wonder if that's how others might feel.
Part of me thinks that much of the Debate forum has run its course. We've covered so much that there's not going to be very much new. And yes, there are some of us who just repeat ourselves to the extent that I don't feel I have much of value to add. (Whether I had anything of value in the past is debatable.)
I read the General Discussion often but also don't contribute as much.
A friend of mine has said that there is a malaise in the world at present. Something spiritual is going weird. As good a reason as any why I for one have lost my enthusiasm not only for quoteland but also for other things (sadly). So many of my friends really seem to be on a down. Credit crunch, maybe, or what? Who knows?
Don't know the answer for quoteland, but new blood might help. It's always good to get the newbies to challenge the old ways. How to get newbies? No idea. Wish I could add some words of wisdom.
I came to quoteland in search of quotes, so till the day I stop reading, I'm going to be at quoteland contributing something super interesting i just happened to read and liked to be shared on FavQ.
The other forums for me are bonuses. For me FavQ is my first love and as we may all know first loves are hard to forget.
Personally this year has been a real tough one for me on all fronts. So I've been here more because I was a moderator, than because I wanted to participate in the goings on. I thank TN and MBB for that... else I wouldn't have been here much.
As for the downsizing bit, I am not in favour of merging the forums, but that's because I like their individual flavour too much. I can't say much for the workshop and writing forums, but I definitely would not like to see DF merge with GD or the Lit forum merge with learning & knowledge.
just my .o2 annas.
@Asa,
These are the most profound times, humankind has ever been a part of. The magnetic grid of the earth is changing and that effects all forms of life inhabiting the planet on all levels, but mostly on the emotional.
That is not a spiritual malaise... As Richard Bach has said in his book ONE, "Bad things are not the worst things that can happen to us. Nothing is the worst thing that can happen to us!". We can only allow the world to live at it chooses, and live ourselves the way we'd want it to live as.
@Aeras,
Quoteland is a haven. It only ceases to be one in our individual minds, because that is the choice the individual makes for his/her particular present.
Scatter joy ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson. ~*Blowing out someone else's candle doesn't make your's burn any brighter.*~ We can't all be stars, but we can all twinkle. We may not have it all together, but together we have it all.
Posts: 6207 | Location: India | Registered: 07-03-01
Asa and Aeras, I totally concur with your post regarding the pervasive ennui you experience (visiting regularly but having no will nor desire to invest thoughts to keyboard). Without going into detail, this year has been of the more difficult of my life.
I also agree with you, Asa, re how the Debate Forum seems to have run its course. (That said, Ananya has piqued me to return today!) I'm just wondering if some of the spam-riddled, low traffic forums were either locked only for viewing or were even hidden (not deleted) for a time, maybe QL might be revived. You know, the old adage, "You never appreciate something until its gone." What if we hid Workshop, Old Writers Forum, Writers' Forum, DF, and the Lit and Learning Forums for, say, a month?
That would leave the quote forums, the suggestion box, and GD....... Still enough room to play for the remnant, and maybe we remnant would have greater feelings to contribute if we were visiting what felt like a small café (versus an empty university).
Again just throwing out provocative suggestions.... who else?
------------------------------ The opposite of joy is not sorrow. It is unbelief. ~ Leslie Weatherhead Picture me with my ground teeth stalking joy--fully armed too, as it's a highly dangerous quest. ~ Flannery O'Connor
Quoteland is a haven. It only ceases to be one in our individual minds, because that is the choice the individual makes for his/her particular present.
I disagree. This is only partially true for the very fact that if our entire world was fabricated by the whims of our minds, what use for other people would there ever be? Others quite influence how we perceive the world and those things we hold dear.
Aire, this is a noble suggestion but I fear that if quoteland is reduced to quote forums, suggestion and GD forums, there maybe an impetus for it to remain that way. New members wont object (because they wont know) and many old would be so horrified at the state of affairs, I fear many may not return.
Aire, this is a noble suggestion but I fear that if quoteland is reduced to quote forums, suggestion and GD forums, there maybe an impetus for it to remain that way. New members wont object (because they wont know) and many old would be so horrified at the state of affairs, I fear many may not return.
Well, I guess I'm in a gambler's frame of mind. What do we really have to lose? We're wandering around in an empty university (or cemetery, depending upon the analogy one chooses.)
I for one refuse to do the social networking/facebookie thing. First, I like my privacy and if I want to dialog with friends or share photos I'd prefer it to be one-on-one in emails. Too, I've read governments, employers, etc. are now garnering much info about folks who rashly post way too much stuff about themselves on such networking sites.
I was first attracted to QL b/c of the variety of minds, provocations, ideas, and personalities. It was exhilarating to meet strangers who become acquaintances (a few good friends) who may have hailed from such exotic geographical places as Australia, NZ, Indonesia, India, GB, Scotland, etc. The common ground was how we were attracted to similar interests, be it poetry or the fun of DFing. I also enjoyed how folks from all different age groups intermingled, so that a high schooler could exchange poetry or life observations with an aged curmudgeon(ette).
Perhaps QL and other such forums are now "horse and buggie" vintage, I don't know. Maybe there will be a renaissance. Maybe it's time to see if there's a collective yawn when half the forums disappear (temporarily) or if the remnant will stop by QL's smaller café more often.
Maybe it's time to bid each other adieu? I'd be curious if TN could provide stats on QL's traffic. I'm betting the quote forums get the most, but I have no idea.
(still in feisty, contrary mode)
------------------------------ The opposite of joy is not sorrow. It is unbelief. ~ Leslie Weatherhead Picture me with my ground teeth stalking joy--fully armed too, as it's a highly dangerous quest. ~ Flannery O'Connor
I was first attracted to QL b/c of the variety of minds, provocations, ideas, and personalities. It was exhilarating to meet strangers who become acquaintances (a few good friends) who may have hailed from such exotic geographical places as Australia, NZ, Indonesia, India, GB, Scotland, etc. The common ground was how we were attracted to similar interests, be it poetry or the fun of DFing. I also enjoyed how folks from all different age groups intermingled, so that a high schooler could exchange poetry or life observations with an aged curmudgeon(ette).
I feel the same, but I have to admit, my heart has really left this place. QL lives on as an important symbol to me, I'd be broken-hearted if it ever went offline, but to a great degree I've migrated to Facebook - which admittedly doesn't have the same charm. But neither does QL anymore. Nothing interesting happens here, and most of the conversation is head-nodding, but at the same time, I'll be damned if I ever post another opinion on here that will provoke the inarticulate fury I'm guaranteed to provoke.
I think, when we had an active and diverse community here, the extra forums had purpose. But we've worn each other down, and - let's be honest - we've left. Personally, for all the good that I've found here (precious, precious friends) I've also had a lot of hope battered and destroyed. Who, really, has faith in their fellows after the way the QL heads have mismanaged conflicts among the membership over, and over, and over, and then, finally, opted for the worst management technique of all: totally hand's off. Of course the site has festered.
To be frank, the site feels unowned and unloved, right down to the quotations collection. That, as much as anything, is the cause of the low traffic here. Everything seems to have stopped moving here a long time ago now.
The quotations forums are the most interesting part of the site nowadays, and really it might be better for everyone if that's what the site stripped back to.
Posts: 5637 | Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand) | Registered: 09-22-02
Fuzzies, well said as usual. In light of that perception (that I agree with), I guess its out of my hands anyways. The site shall become what the site becomes.
Now what poet made that line famous? Was it Sammy T. Coldfridge in the Rime of the Ancient Mariner?
Well I've been busy writing out wit & wisdom to stuff in my Christmas cards that I aim to mail. I've got nifty little Christmas stamps that have snowmen, reindeer and little toy soldiers and such. Aereas does not seem to be on my Chritmas card list this year. Well I've pondered the question about what could be done here at QL to boost moral or stimulate participation and I have come to the conclusion that nothing can be done. I miss all the QL divas most of all. At least the lovely Ms. Amy Beth still contributes a word or two now and then. I also miss Emerald Eyes. Does absence make the heart grow fonder?
I've not checked my new email in about a month but I aim to check it before Christmas.
Posts: 3142 | Location: The Volunteer State | Registered: 06-25-03
You are right, PD, I still enjoy contributing a word or two now and then. I'm a hoverer, and though I've never been a big poster, I still try to visit as frequently as I can. Side story: A couple of months ago I was unable to log on, getting messages saying the site was no longer available, and I was in panic mode. I contacted David and Aeras to see if Quoteland had been shut down, and I was very close to tears (then relieved, to hear everything was all right, and it was just down for a short while). Whew!
Anyway...
I've been trying to come up with some kind of idea(s) to add to this topic, but I'm stumped. I think the "glory days" are, sadly, over. It seems to have happened back when "old" members began to leave, and truthfully speaking I don't remember how/why it happened, but they were what really helped keep the site going. I know there were some heated arguments in the DF and it occasionally boiled over into GD, but at least it was *something* and it kept members holding discussions and coming back FOR something, for a reason. Obviously, that becomes impossible when the members who did contribute in some way, positively OR negatively, began to trickle away. And this is what becomes left of a once-thriving website.
I understand where you are coming from, Aire, and give you credit for trying to boost things again. It couldn't hurt to try different options (once there are some!), but I guess I feel that if old members want to return, they will for reasons other than what may be created in this topic. It seems this was started to combat spamming, but has turned in a different direction, where perhaps the main problem lies. But speaking in the regard of spam, perhaps there could be "junior moderators" chosen, from the pool of active members (maybe TN or any moderators who have access to statistics can check that out?), whose duties could be specifically targeting spammers? (No, I am not suggesting myself. ) It may be time consuming, but if they are deemed active, then they are here anyway, right? And they could have "designated jobs" and report to the Senior Moderator(s) of each forum? Just some food for thought.
I'm such a rambler (sorry folks!), but I hope that my post offers something, whether small or big. Quoteland always has and always will mean so much to me, as it does for others. It is a special place and I hope no matter what direction it goes, it will be special to those who have been here in the past, and those that will visit it in the future.
Posts: 914 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: 12-07-00
Things are what they are; because of what they became: ~ Requote 121209
To understand the statement requires the individual to do some actual research across some of the forums. If that’s to much trouble for you, then ask yourself the question:*
Quoteland (as far as I’m aware) was set up as a scholarly resource. When I first found Quoteland, I did research some of the older debates and discussions. To my surprise, I did find some of the debates and discussions worthy of the title scholarly.
*What are you or have you been doing here?
To put the whole question into a nutshell for an answer:
You cannot argue with someone who denies the first principals. ~ Auctorit Aristotelis
Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but rather memory. ~ Leonardo Da Vinci
Prejudice, not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument. ~ Sammuel Johnson
Never argue with a fool. People might not know the difference. ~ Liz Dubey. Ananya
requote, your posts are very difficult to read and your train of thought is hard to follow. Could you reformat and expand your comments in your own words?
As much as I like quotes, they're only so versatile.
Posts: 5637 | Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand) | Registered: 09-22-02
There’s funny ha-ha and funny hee-hee. Funny your not; that requires wit. Wit derives from a combination of knowledge and understanding of both subject and language. However, occasionally I do find you amusing (ha-ha) e.g.
WOW a whole 42 minuets between my posting and you replying. Of course by your standards, that’s slow. Thanks for the compliment.
requote, I was not trying to be funny. Frankly, I think the fact that totally opaque posts like this are nowadays accepted uncritically is also part of the problem. We used to advise each other.
Posts: 5637 | Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand) | Registered: 09-22-02
Scatter joy ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson. ~*Blowing out someone else's candle doesn't make your's burn any brighter.*~ We can't all be stars, but we can all twinkle. We may not have it all together, but together we have it all.
Posts: 6207 | Location: India | Registered: 07-03-01
)
) It may be time consuming, but if they are deemed active, then they are here anyway, right? And they could have "designated jobs" and report to the Senior Moderator(s) of each forum? Just some food for thought. 