It looks like the 24 hours is up, I cannot put in my last post to the DF. So...

THE WORDS TO THE LAST POST
Come home! Come home! The last post is sounding
for you to hear. All good soldiers know very well there
is nothing to fear while they do what is right, and forget
all the worries they have met in their duties through the
year. A soldier cannot always be great, but he can be a
gentleman and he can be a right good pal to his comrades in
his squad. So all you soldiers listen to this – Deal fair by all
and you’ll never be amiss.


Be Brave! Be Just! Be Honest and True Men!

The Last Post

Get Curious!

Is my clock thingy on here wrong? That seemed like a short 24 hours.

This is not something that was done capriciously or in haste. It might make those who choose to believe a simple soundbite-meme that TN is “at fault” feel better, but that does not make it so.

Look further, deeper. You will see. Look... inward.

Every time one of us acted or reacted in an unfair or unnecessarily harsh way toward one of our fellow travellers, we hammered another nail in the coffin of the DF. Our short-term pleasure at the discomfort we imagined or hoped we might be inflicting upon our adversaries drove this ship against the rocks. Sometimes a breeze, sometimes a tempest, but 'ere the wind drove south. Tell me it wasn’t so!

When I read the “Muslims” thread, I don’t know what you’all saw there, but I saw my brother, in pain.

Did I cause that? Did he?

Did... we?

I once remarked that if the DF is to prosper, then the role of moderation needs to be devolved to individual members. That we should each individually exercise restraint and respect for the dignity of individuals, every time we post.

We, the many, have failed.

Nevertheless, the DF is a record of a truly remarkable group of people, living through a truly remarkable period of history. I include myself, immodestly, among them. We should be proud and protective of our work there. I have been changed, profoundly and for the better (I hope) by my association with every person in that cauldron, that arena, that community. Testing my self, testing the selves of others. Speaking, listening, laughing and crying. Giggling such that snot flew from my nose. Learning and teaching. The cycle of mental life.

Do I bear ill-will to any person? I do not. What do I feel? I feel a huge, aching, echoing hole. For what more might have been.

For the DF contributors, and for the Quoteland creators and tireless workers, I feel only overwhelming gratitude, admiration and... love. For every one of you, without exception or caveat.

Davdoodles
XXX

“…That you will lead your lives and practice your art in uprightness and honor... That into whatsoever house you shall enter, it shall be for the good... to the utmost of your power, your holding yourselves far aloof from wrong, from corruption, from the tempting of others to vice... That whatsoever you shall see or hear of the lives of men or women which is not fitting to be spoken, you will keep inviolably secret...”
- The Hippocratic Oath

Quote from TN

quote:

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In the not too distant past I made the following statement to the moderators:

"Awards International may own this place, but it belongs to the members, and we are the custodians".

---

A man is only as good as his words.


Knowledge + Experience = Wisdom : Grayheart (R.I.P)

Dav,

I expected you to be a yaysayer but do you need to be his cheerleader also?

_________________
*Warning: all of the above is from a flaming, bleeding heart, genocide apologetic, whiney, tool, who is going to over-generalize that all conservatives are anti-family, money hungry, self-absorbed, murderous fanatics, who want nothing but to steal children away from mothers to indoctrinate them in the military to create a new perfect order. Sorry, it's "the facist in me."

ACLU Execution Watch

I hope you like the alienation of good members with your closed forums TN, because that is what your getting.

HAVE A NICE DAY!

~Aeras

Do you think all the time? If not, your existence may be in jeopardy!

The nature of debate forum

quote:

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Debate Forum
By popular demand: the verbal sparring grounds of Quoteland.com. Any topic, no matter how controversial, is open for discussion here.

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Contraversy is going to happen. Verbal sparring ground is going to happen. It's a small price to pay for your know?

If you going camping, you are going to get some mud. It's the nature of it. It shouldn't stop you from going because there so much positive you can gain.

Don't think negatives. Think positives!


Knowledge + Experience = Wisdom : Grayheart (R.I.P)

As I logged on this afternoon, just getting home from work, I was alarmed but not surprised that the Debate Forum was closed. I then began to read each and every post made during the last week. What I came to conclude was a somewhat vicious cycle that has always been present on that forum. Now mind you, I'm not individualizing any particular member or topic, but the attitude as a whole.

A large percentage of all the confrontations Quoteland has ever witnessed, the arguments, were centered around Debate. For example, the Exodus to Word Parade lost all its original intent and ended up being, by almost two thirds, flame throwing of past debate proccedings. It seems that whenever a altercation arose, somehow, from somewhere, members would use Debate as a catalyst for their aggression.

As Dav stated,

quote:

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Look further, deeper. You will see. Look... inward.

Every time one of us acted or reacted in an unfair or unnecessarily harsh way toward one of our fellow travelers, we hammered another nail in the coffin of the DF.

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I participated in very few debates. Why? Because much of the time my words were taken the way people wanted to interprite them.. I've witnessed it over and over again how one person would state their argument and several people would respond in a complete different manner which had a tendency to create, you guess it, more hurtful accusations. People would go out of their way to cut down another member. Comments were then made in General Discussion and also in private e-mail ( which I had received ) continuing the antagonism started in Debate. Mocking continues right now because of episodes derived from Debate. Where was it going to end?

I once made a post in General Discussion, let me see if I can locate it. Yep, here it is,

quote:

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It's up to you the members, to evolve General Discussion into the forum which you can all learn and have fun in. General Discussion is just that, for the general public. Make it the best it can be.

Thank you again and remember, its the people who build the community.

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The same went for Debate, unfortunately, the negativity, cat fights, and sarcasm has taken its toll. TN didn't shut down Debate, the attitude surrounding it did, unfortunately.



[This message was edited by Sentrawoods on 09-28-04 at 11:45 PM.]

Your refusal to save the Writers Club has, by luck, and possibly by introducing Dawn and Eeyorelynn, been offset for now - there is some nice stuff happening.
Still, that was just luck - it had nothing to do with your incompetent, self-serving grasp on this website. So you needn't gloat about that.

Long live debate forum! If anything, it'll be the mightiest epitaph of QL.

Obviously you SHOULD bring back the Love Forum, it's those kind of members you want AND are getting.

What have you done? What happened the QL's mission statement?

What happened to this place being a refuge of intellect?

Quoteland will never again be found among the groves of academe under your watch TN and advisors. It's a talk-show now.

"his image pulsing - booming"
-You know who you are.:P

I posted over in the Suggestion Box's "DEBATE FORUM" thread about the possibility of a compromise. Could anyone who has not seen it read it over and tell me whether such a thing could be possible?

I just now realized I had missed reading the page-3 replies in this thread, posted on 28 Sept., and how dumb my page 4 replies seem!

If DF’s staying open did not help… its shutdown is not helping either. I still think something can just be done about the recent debates… without sacrificing the whole forum. Or maybe something like Katelyn’s suggestion in DEBATE FORUM!!!. [Edit, Katie I posted the reply before reading your above reply.]
I do not, however, place all blame on TN; the decision might be somewhat hasty and unreasonable but I do not think it is because of TN’s personal dislike for DF or anything.

----
"My mother and father desired a child and they begot me.
And I wanted a mother and a father and I begot night and the sea."
-Kahlil Gibran, "Sand and foam"

quote:

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Obviously you SHOULD bring back the Love Forum, it's those kind of members you want AND are getting.

What have you done? What happened the QL's mission statement?

What happened to this place being a refuge of intellect?

Quoteland will never again be found among the groves of academe under your watch TN and advisors. It's a talk-show now.

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Well said my man. That's exactly what I was thinking man.


Debate Forum: The brain of Quoteland. I am dreaming of your return.

I would be willing to lend my support in this healing process. My support being: more attentive, responsible, and encouraging behavior to benefit debate.

_________________
*Warning: all of the above is from a flaming, bleeding heart, genocide apologetic, whiney, tool, who is going to over-generalize that all conservatives are anti-family, money hungry, self-absorbed, murderous fanatics, who want nothing but to steal children away from mothers to indoctrinate them in the military to create a new perfect order. Sorry, it's "the facist in me."

ACLU Execution Watch

And so the alternative is to push some New Agey silliness to the effect that "we're all to blame"?

Bullshit, Dav.

WE, the members, didn't shut the forum down, TN did. And what's more I'd appreciate it if you few people sticking up for him would quit lying. He tried to shut the forum down before, and it *was* capriciousness that caused it. You expect me to think that this is any different? It's OBVIOUS that he always hated the forum. It's his agenda and has been for a long time.

I also like how TN and the mods have ignored Knock Out's obvious point : he's caught yet another lie. 24 hours is actually 3 to TN, and I guess that magical manipulation of space-time can also be done "just because he says so".

The gutlessness makes me sick. Everyone wants to throw the blame on anyone but TN or, hell, even TheTableist. I predict in no more than 2 weeks TN will again be saying with a straight face that this site "only exists for its users" -- as if he gives a rat's ass what we think.

Quotes? The DF was full of quotes. But no, "scholarship" is just googling who said "give me liberty or give me death" for the hundredth time for some one-post member who'll never return. A site made in his image, with no naughty words and no controversy. Good job.

Truth in advertising demands that TN stop this "it belongs to the members" shit forthwith. It actually belongs to the few or the one who simply and simple-mindedly blows up what he doesn't like, just because he can.

I've never made a blanket condemnation of this sort before, but then everyone sensible has moved on or has become corrupted.

This site's adminstration is dishonest and petty. We didn't ruin this place -- not TT, not even surgeon -- YOU ruined it. And you can spew whatever fakery you wish about "feeling bad about it", but it won't mitigate your stupid, wanton, and mini-Stalinist actions.

My Crap
http://elementropy.blogspot.com/

Don't forget the scholarly nature of the general discussion forum. What can't be more academic than 14 K.O Chic Questions or Tattoos on women.

Confrontational=bad

Sexually abhorrent=good

_________________
*Warning: all of the above is from a flaming, bleeding heart, genocide apologetic, whiney, tool, who is going to over-generalize that all conservatives are anti-family, money hungry, self-absorbed, murderous fanatics, who want nothing but to steal children away from mothers to indoctrinate them in the military to create a new perfect order. Sorry, it's "the facist in me."

ACLU Execution Watch

Ladon, I wouldn't say that if I were you. The way QL is being run at the moment, it could be another WP (lock-up like wild animals). GD, PT, GK .... everything ... gone. I still like to be here man.


"Awards International may own this place, but it belongs to the members, and we are the custodians": TN (The administrator)

At least there would be some consistency then.

_________________
*Warning: all of the above is from a flaming, bleeding heart, genocide apologetic, whiney, tool, who is going to over-generalize that all conservatives are anti-family, money hungry, self-absorbed, murderous fanatics, who want nothing but to steal children away from mothers to indoctrinate them in the military to create a new perfect order. Sorry, it's "the facist in me."

ACLU Execution Watch

quote:

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Retardo wrote: Bullshit, Dav. WE, the members, didn't shut the forum down, TN did. And what's more I'd appreciate it if you few people sticking up for him would quit lying.

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When the Tableist called me a "liar" I was saddened. When you call me a liar, it just pisses me off.

It's easy to SAY you care about the DF, it's not so easy to WORK to save the DF, is it? What has it ever cost you? What have you ever even considered doing for the DF? For the community? For anyone? What shit were you ever prepared to suck up for the good of this community that you CLAIM to be so fond of?

What's that? Nothing? Exactly. In a civilised society, we make compromises. When we live cheek-by-jowl with others, we MAKE AN EFFORT to get along. Did you? EVER?

Nope. You didn't. Not once. Everyone is wrong, exactly to the degree that their views differ from your own. Right? Nobody is entitled to that difference, are they? In your world, everyone is your moral inferior.

How many times have I heard you say that you won't give an inch? How many times have TN and others tried to bring order and civility to the DF? Who has always been there calling us cowards, liars, sell-outs?

Who indeed.

quote:

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The gutlessness makes me sick. Everyone wants to throw the blame on anyone but TN or, hell, even TheTableist

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You want "gutless"? - look in the mirror. You can't even consider that you had a hand in this, can you? It's all a vast conspiracy, isn't it? To stifle your free speech, right? Nobody has the strength of will, the moral clarity, the gut-full-ness of the mighty Retardo!

Tell me, Mr moral highground - why? Why would the creators of this site set it up, offer it, free-of-charge to the world, work so hard to make the DF a safe and interesting place, and then just shut it down, eh?

A vast TN-led conspiracy? Really?

Oh yes, it all makes sense now! TN, who started the DF, who was the first moderator of the DF, who kept it going for four years, is the diabolical genius whose evil plan to shut it down has finally come together!

Gutless? I don't want to talk to you at the moment.

Davdoodles
XXX

Hey, I'm not the heavyhanded one. Remember that.

And **** a bunch of your selfishness accusations. I took up for Prof, Ladon, Euphorion, and TheTableist when certain people, in particular the departed Emerald Citizen who first uttered the TN motto of "what I say goes and you can't do anything about it and rules don't apply to me", tried to basically do to them what TN has done to the DF.

You wanna deny that TN has tried to shut down the forum before? I mean the proof is out there -- for now, until the Orwellian erasure inevitably commences -- so what good does it do you to deny it and falsify the record? TN *wanted* to blow it up, and TheTabliest finally gave him an excuse.

You don't wanna talk to me? Felling's mutual, pal, since you've tossed your hat into defending this silly exercise. *YOU* wanna deny that the posters worked hard on the forum, fine. *You* wanna deny that TN is sticking the middle finger up at the principle that this site is controlled by its readership, fine. But don't expect me to buy into the falsity and cynicism. Great, Dav. You've become an apparatchik.

My Crap
http://elementropy.blogspot.com/

Truth is, I'm amazed to see you saying all of this too Dav.

Between the huge distortions of everyones' characters made by members, I'm at a loss to even attempt to absolve any of this.

Look at all the libel against long-suffering Ananya who is NOTHING she's ever been accused of! She has her faults - but she's not some anti-American she-devil with plans to torch America. I cringe when I see members and more disturbingly MODERATORS trade these cartoon versions of people around the site.
I think hate has been a great distorter in all of this.

quote:

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A vast TN-led conspiracy? Really?

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Conspiracy? No, not at all. Another mistake that suggests an utter lack of good judgement when handling a situation? Absolutely.