There are big, successful churches that are led by godly people who are honest and use the finances to do the work they feel they are called to do.
There are also successful, worldwide ministries that do so much good for others - two examples are Compassion International http://www.compassion.com/Default and Samaritan's Purse http://www.samaritanspurse.org/home.asp .
The Bible teaches that to whom much is given, much is required.
These organizations and churches (small, large, Protestant, Catholic, etc) help people on a daily basis with food, clothing, housing, and more. They are there in force after a disaster, working alongside each other for the common good.
Organized churches and other religious organizations are made up of imperfect people and sometimes those people make mistakes.
However, for the most part, people who work with a ministry sponsored by their religious organization or church (from a lay person in a small church to a leader of a worldwide organization) are in it for the right reasons - because they want to serve God and they sincerely care about others.
Religion just for the sake of religion can bring about negative consequences. Everything that has been done and is being done in the name of religion is not all good, but the good far outweighs the bad. The world would certainly be different without religion, but it would not be a better place.

"Sometimes the heart sees what is invisible to the eye."
-H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

So you assume.

It is incredibly likely that these organizations are headed up by atheists attempting to 'rip people off'.

Besides, look at World Vision. I have a Sri Lankan friend who tells me the people in Sri Lanka loathe those organizations, because they only help those who display a remote interest in Christianity. Those that do not care for religion, or are deeply religious outside of Christianity, get squat.

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And Im a Million Different People
From One Day to the Next
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Beacon,
I'm sorry that your friend has come across people like that. Please don't judge all groups by what some of them may do. I know someone working with rebuilding in Sri Lanka and they help everyone.

"Sometimes the heart sees what is invisible to the eye."
-H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

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Those that do not care for religion, or are deeply religious outside of Christianity, get squat.
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Of course, it is part of propaganda by any faith.

There are thousand of other missinaries lead by Muslims to help their faith, so Jews, Hindu and Buddhist have their own too!


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The world would certainly be different without religion, but it would not be a better place.
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I think it would be much better place 'without religion.'
killing each other in the name of religion has never been out of fashion.

In the past, it was a prosecution on name of religion? Remember "Galileo?"

Let see:
How many wars and violence waged in the name of religion?
wars between:
(1) czarist pogroms against the Jews
(2) Christians, Jews, and Moslims.
(3) Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland
(4) Jews and Muslim in the Middle East
(5) Hindu and Muslim in India

Considering, how many people have been killed in the name of God and not the Devil.

::OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN::
Think about it: No army has ever marched off to war in the name of the Devil.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Serenity of mind, good-heartedness, purity of nature, self-control—this is called mental austerity. ~Gitopanishad.

Ok. I have been gone for a while so i think i will jump here by just starting what I think. I think that the world would be much better without religion. Religion has given people morals, but it has also taken countless lives from "holy" wars such as the crusades and caused people to fight for years over something such as religion. I say people could find another easier and less dangerous way to find morals.

Well, yesterday sucked, today sucks, and tomarrow is no different, so who cares what happens. I'm gunna do whatever the hell I want."
-Aye, this be me own creed.

Queenofhearts, what Im saying is that these charity organizations shouldnt identify as religous. It leads to their incrimination.

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And Im a Million Different People
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There have been many times in my life when I have felt like removing myself from the world of religious organizations because I was so disappointed and let down about things that had happened. But I have kept my membership in an organized church because I know we serve a great purpose in our community and we reach out to other parts of the country and world through extended ministries. We feed hungry families in our community, we pay electric bills for people who can't, we give to many, many people in need. Our ministries are available to people unconditionally - no strings attached. I know there are 1000s of churches just like the one I belong to that have as their primary mission to demonstrate and share the unconditional love of Christ.
To me, that is not be "religious" but is what being a Christian is all about. I feel that in order to make a difference, there has to be some kind of organization to work with and through.
There have been many, many things done in the name of God or religion that have been wrong, but there is still the positive influence works motivated by love that you just can't ignore.

BOH - if your friend was shown anything but the unconditional love of Christ by persons working with either of the two organizations I mentioned in my post, please email me with as much detail as possible - westtnqofh@yahoo.com
Thanks.

"Sometimes the heart sees what is invisible to the eye."
-H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

Caring has no religion, religion it's not about counting good thing done by our organisaton.

I have seen on TV and have read so many reports during the Tsunami disaster.
Most of the chrities organations like Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Taoists, Buddhist or whatever group, they all did excellent job by their combined effort.
All these aid agencies worked togather, pulling all resources to help and cope with the aftermath of the tsunami disaster.
They were true to their beautiful religion which was full of love and compassion.

I think charities do work. And charities will continue to do the good work of helping the hungry, sick, disadvantaged, orphaned and poor.
Some of the charites now working on to build Child Centers in war-torn communities, providing nutrition, vaccines, and basic healthcare for women and children.

I think this I will called "a religion".
Amen.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Serenity of mind, good-heartedness, purity of nature, self-control—this is called mental austerity. ~Gitopanishad.

Would the world today be a better place if there were no religion at all?

I can't rightly say. I think that freedom of religion in the United States makes our country more tolerant to religion in general. If we didn't have religion then there would be nothing but heathens and atheist running this country. We wouldn't have Churches or Sunday School or Vacation Bible School or Revivals or Church Camps or Christmas or Christmas presents. As a result, we wouldn't have Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny. We wouldn't have bibles so there would be no Giddeons. We wouldn't have Free Masons or Shriners or Popes or Bishops or Decons or Elders. We wouldn't have heaven but we would have plenty of hell. We wouldn't have bells in the church towers. We wouldn't have Jehova's Witnesses knocking on our doors at odd hours of the day or night. We wouldn't have a Bible Belt in the south. We wouldn't have a Notre Dame in the north. We wouldn't have the Fighting Irish of Norte Dame playing footballl almost every Saturday in the fall. We wouldn't have Mormons in Utah. We wouldn't have a BYU. We wouldn't have a Holy Cross College in Texas. We wouldn't have Oral Roberts or ORU in Oklahoma. We wouldn' have fire or brimstone and we would have no collection plate passed on Sunday mornings. All we would have would be a bunch of discontented heathens and atheist.

[This message was edited by Phantom_Delta on 08-22-05 at 07:12 PM.]

phantom delta puts up several good points

culture would not be the way it is now if there were no religion

ours and everyone else's culture would probably be a boring survival of the fittest culture in which people rarely care for each other

You guys assume this is a bad thing? Culture (assuming this to be some objective entity) would have found some other mediums to play along to bring about our identity. And religion was only a fraction of what constituted our identity. I give you Australia.

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All we would have would be a bunch of discontented heathens and atheist.

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Have you ever met an atheist who was anything other than content in their lack of faith?

Religion isn't the only method of creating ultra-rational sanctions for moral conduct you know. [Thank you Mr. Kidd]

I dunno, maybe it's harder in the USoA where Christian is a fanaticism almost comparable with that Pokemon craze a few years back.

:P

Pretty much all the honest truth telling in the world is done by children.
~ Oliver Wendell

Perhaps the history of the American West, The Wild West, is a good example of whether religion would be detrimental or beneficial to a society. The Native Americans were religious to some degree but there were conflicts and violence and wars between the various tribes. There came trappers, explorers and the mountain men who for the most part were Frenchmen or English or American. When the demand for beaver pelts diminished the west began to become exploited for other natural resources and land rights. The quest for progress began to push the Native Americans from the lands that they had held for centuries. The Buffalo were slaughtered by whites to such extents that they almost became extinct. The cattle industry was ushered into a new era. There were cattle drives and cowboys and Colt six-shooters and Winchester repeating carbines. The west became known as the “Wild West” for all the wild reasons. There was shooting and killing and drinking and stealing. Outlaws ran rough-shod in lawless and Godless regions. Gambling and prostitution began to escalate. The demand for booze and prostitutes continued to escalate. Saloons became profitable. The cowboys and Indians became enemies. When Churches began to pop up in the west the rowdy towns began to become more civilized. Schools were built and education began to flourish. Public hangings became more common. The Mormons started moving west. There was a military conquest of the Native Americans. Reservations were established. Political lines were drawn and states were established. Law and order and religion and politics had finally prevailed in the name of progress. Railroads were built and the west was won. There were many victims of progress: outlaws, lawmen, clergy, cattle owners, soldiers, cowboys and Indians.

Would the American West now be a wilder west without religion?

factum durum uel factum nullum

Laughs, Matt, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the Pokemon craze, well... it was condemned to the dustbin of history, shall we say?

The plight of Galileo and Copernicus is well documented, as is the inhibitions caused by Christianity in the advancement of medicine, but much of what we recognise as 'religious knowledge' that has been detrimental to scientific advancement in history stems from the knowledge of early Greek philosophers.

Hippo.

Stella Splendens
December 22, 1985 - March 27, 2003
RIP
...Always.

Even if there is no god, we should still have religious beliefs. It feels great to have something to look forward to(life in heaven) and have a reason for living. If everyone were athiests, than this world would be filled to the brim with depression. Suicide rates might go up or down, it depends on how we'd think. Religion is what keeps us going, gives us reassurance, for me that is. The only athiests I've met have said that Earth is godless for one reason. No proof. Maybe God will show himself when the world won't require proof for everything.

would you want to live in a world where people
have no fear of god?

this may not contribute to the debate but

did you know that mormoms are the U.S.'s biggest purchasers of carpet

quote:

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Originally posted by moodsetter:
would you want to live in a world where people
have no fear of god?

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That pressupposes that fear of God is what keeps people from acting moral. If I don't believe that statement, your argument carries no weight.

Whether it's the social contract type of Locke/Hobbes/Rousseau commentary that keeps people acting morally, or simply just an innate sense of right and wrong, it doesn't have to be religion that keeps people "in line" as you will.

s-

***
I would rather die of thirst than drink from the cup of mediocrity.
***
A man can't deny what he is. He can convince everybody else he is someone else, but never himself.

http://andifeelfine.blogspot.com/

quote:

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Originally posted by enola_catori:

quote:

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Originally posted by moodsetter:
would you want to live in a world where people
have no fear of god?

---

That pressupposes that fear of God is what keeps people from acting moral. If I don't believe that statement, your argument carries no weight.

Whether it's the social contract type of Locke/Hobbes/Rousseau commentary that keeps people acting morally, or simply just an innate sense of right and wrong, it doesn't have to be religion that keeps people "in line" as you will.

s-

***
I would rather die of thirst than drink from the cup of mediocrity.
***
A man can't deny what he is. He can convince everybody else he is someone else, but never himself.

http://andifeelfine.blogspot.com/

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i think shame keeps people moral, but religion must have some impact.

Japan really has no religion. They have some supersitions and beliefs that are not logically founded but they have no real religion. There are a scattering of christians as the west tries to spread it's religion to Japanese, but those are really only the lonely Japanese who are trying to find some where to fit in and have friends, I doubt most, if any, of those "christians" have any real faith in the religion.

Japan is a successful and ingenuitive society. While some of their morals are a bit different than western morals, who is to say which is right?

You can not say that society can not function with out religion.

As for christmas and easter not being around with out religion, that's a bunch of crock. Neither one is about christ any more, I mean Christmas isn't even on the right day.

Religion had a point, a reason, to exist. That reason is no longer valid but religion is still in existence. Now, imo, it simply causes more harm than good.