Note from thenostromo: This was a post from the "I Need a Quote" forum that had originally been typed using all caps. If you read the thread you will see how it went rather awry. Any opinions on this?
For a sister who raised me/for Fathers Day
My sister helped my mom get out of an abusive relationship with my Dad and raised me and my brother since she was 21 years of age. She has never married,just lived with my mom and helped to support all of us.She has been an angel in our family for many years.She is now 49 and I am 36 so she has been filling the role of my "Dad" for many years now...Please help me find a quote for an engraving I want to do for her for Father's Day. We celebrate Father's Day for her ...because she really is the Dad of the family!!! Thanks bunches!!!
********* I would normally delete 'ALL CAPS' postings but I am prepared to make an exception in this case,and edit it instead,as a:it is your first post and b:it is a worthy endevour; your sister sounds like quite a special person. But please, do not post 'ALL CAPS' again. emeraldcitizen
[This message was edited by emeraldcitizen on 06-13-01 at 12:02 PM.]
[This message was edited by thenostromo on 06-14-01 at 03:13 PM.]
Well, thanks for your replies...and for the criticism on "ALL CAPS"...However, I think anybody who equates that to yelling...needs to think again...it is just typing in caps...quit giving something that trivial such a harsh meaning...
...that using all CAPS on chat rooms and BBS is the same as yelling. If you didn't know this, we have now,very gently, just brought it to your attention, and you should be thanking us instead of counseling us. We have just helped you to come just a bit further along on current events. I think Emeraldcitizen was being very generous in letting this topic stand; and I also enjoyed finding the examples I found for ideas for your engraving.
I'm sure I will get grief over this post but I am with khrobbins on this one.
It is her first post, it's obvious that she wasn't yelling and lastly do we really have to be so picky. This is a casual 'fun' forum - ease up, don't take everything so seriously! Smile - life's too short!!
This quote won't work for engraving but...
"We need someone to believe in us - if we do well, we want our work commended, our faith corroborated. The individual who thinks well of you, who keeps her mind on your good qualities, and does not look for flaws, is your friend. Who is my sister? I'll tell you: she is one who recognizes the good in me." ~ Elbert Hubbard
In this case, I don't buy it, and I am saying this to a friend. This is a rule which I happen to agree with. Using all caps is an indication of one thing, and one thing only. That is: "I WANT TO BE NOTICED MORE THAN ANY OTHER POSTS. I WANT ATTENTION! I WANT YOU TO RESPOND TO ME BEFORE ANY OTHERS!" That is what "all caps" means. PERIOD!
The fact that this post is still visible is evidence that I have "lightened up" quite a lot. I had let it be know that I would simply delete 'ALL CAPS' postings without further investigation but, not only did I not delete this particular post immidiatly,(because I thought the sentiment contained therein was a worthy one,and it was her first posting),I actually edited it so that it would read in correct case with proper punctuation(of which there was very little originally). Seeing as the only two replies that have been recieved(apart from TN's defence) to my attempt at being conciliatory and kind have been criticism, I have come to regret that moment of kindness and henceforth I shall return to my previously stated policy of instant deletion of 'ALL CAPS' postings without investigation or exceptions.I refer you to a previous post on this topic.... http://forum.quoteland.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=586192041&f=487195441&m=9591925412
I must say I am particularly disappointed that the criticism should come from a former colleague of ours on quoteland who should know me well enough to know just how seriously I do take my participation in these forums.
To khrobbinns,I say once again; You have a very special sister and you should do all you can to make her feel loved and appreciated,but it is obvious you already do,and I wish you all the best for the future as a loving and united family.
emeraldcitizen Lowery's Law:If it jams,force it...if it breaks it needed replacing anyway.
Jeez..moderator now I feel as if I am in English Class...I am doing this at work and I typed it in quickly which is why it was in caps because my keyboard was set on caps...and YES...I did need immediate attention...Father's Day is the weekend...and I thought myself very luckey when I came across your site. However, if I had known that even my punctuation or lack thereof was going to be so critiqued I would have thought twice before asking for help. I, too, thought that this was a laid back fun forum for people to help out each other...not a place to get their hands slapped for such trivial behavior. To all of you who supported my opinion thanks and if you don't agree then thanks for even caring to have an opinion!!!
BTW...moderator you mispelled immediately and defense...thought you would want to know something like that since all that other stuff seemed to matter so much!!!!
If there had been no reply after my second one, I was going to delete it this morning, but I was too late. Most of the time when we've seen all caps being used, it has appeared as an obvious attempt to get noticed more than other posts, and they are repeat offenders. You were obviously innocent in this case, and at first I don't think either Emeraldcitizen or I were trying to make a big deal out of it. I am truly making major efforts to "lighten up" as much as possible about everything. My life is at a point where I'm being careful about the things I take too seriously. The fact does remain, however, that the thing about caps being a way to "yell," especially in chat rooms, is a fairly well known thing, and as Moderator, Emeraldcitizen has every right to establish and enforce any rules he deems necessary that will provide the most friendly and accessible forum for finding quotes. (It just occurred to me that I may be speaking out of turn. I certainly don't mean to be stepping into David's shoes here.)
I am copying this thread to the Debate forum to see if we can get some other opinions on this matter. To Khrobbins, I extend a most heartfelt welcome to Quoteland, and my apology that this "incident" has apparently chased you away. [Oh, and I can't defend the spelling of immediately, but defence is chiefly a British variant of DEFENSE (the caps here are from Merriam-Webster On-Line). I've typed this all into the reply box, so I will not be surprised if I have some hilarious typos and gaffs in this posting.]
Looked at the title and said "huh? What kind of debate is that" and was even more surprised that tn posted it. Then I read the thread.
1) All caps are yelling. Standard internet etiquette (an oxymoron in most cases) state so, all across the board. TN and emeraldcitizen's responses were gentle reminders and not out of line. All caps also make it more difficult to read, as it is harder to differentiate sentences (yes, I know all about periods and punctuation, but honestly, a capital letter is often easier to see).
2) The response by the original writer reminded me of the complaints on the writer's forum when new members were given constructive criticism instead of the expected pat on the back. It was childish and disrepectful - not to mention ingrateful for your assistance. I had to re-read her original post, I remembered her claiming to be an adult (36) who should have known better, yet she sounded like a petulant 12 year old.
"Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you would be perfectly comfortable." ~ Bobby Bragan
Nobody ever had to tell me about caps. I reviewed several posts in the forum and the norm of using correct case, grammatical construction, punctuation, and nouns agreeing with verbs seemed to be the order of the day -- much to my relief. Every societal organization has its rules. This forum offers a valuable service, often to mindless trivial requests, without complaint or comment.
There was nothing in thenostromo or emeraldcitizen's initial responses that was offensive. They gently proffered guidance so that a newcomer would be aware of the posting criteria. None of us enjoys criticism but I would rather have the criticism than to perpetuate behavior that others deem inappropriate or offensive. I'm sure that I have made my share of bloopers since I have been a member. Either they believe I am incorrigible or the bloopers have not been severe enough for them to call me on it. If and when I do, please tell me. I don't think you will have to remind me a second time.
There are times that I would jump on postings or those making them long before one of the moderators intercedes. They seem to be helpful, patient and tolerant.
Thanks for being here and at least trying to keep us straight!
[This message was edited by Galatea on 06-14-01 at 05:33 PM.]
Wow - I knew I would get grief over my posting but I didn't expect it to get this carried away. When I originally read the post and TN's response "I think Emeraldcitizen was being very generous in letting this topic stand" I thought that my friend (TN and I are friends - actually I would consider us 'best buds') had simply gotten too serious. I know TN's passion for quoteland but in this case I thought he was going a little too far simply because it was her first post and obviously not an intentional move. I never ment to cause such a debate!
TN - I'm sorry if I have upset you or hurt your feelings in any way, that wasn't my intent. I just wanted to remind you to relax and smile, my friend!
My response earlier was a bit strong, and occurred as Mr. Hyde was making his presence known to me. I mentioned before that I was hoping to be able to delete it, but by the time I got back to it, I saw that I had just added fuel to the fire. As I review the thread, I see now that even though you did not intend it, it might have been your post that was the spark that lit this fire. I confess and admit, I was a bit shocked that you were taking exception with Emeraldcitizen's implementation and enforcement of this rule; but hey, I've said on more than several occasions that these are technically "discussion forums," implying that discussion is not only permitted, it is invited. No harm no foul, thus no need for forgiveness, and I got a warm fuzzy when you referred to us as "best buds." I am so glad to see that you are back participating on the forums, because for a short while there I was concerned that you had drifted away.
...and i'm not really arguing the fact that using caps means yelling on the internet. But recently i've been helping my dad type out some stuff for a gala day coming up and i realised that he always uses caps on the computer.
i come back to the study, switch on the computer and then i realise that my keyboard's got the caps lock on. And the thing is, he even writes in capital letters which makes a lot of his writing pretty much indecipherable to everyone but him.
And it's got me paying attention to the way all my teachers write and there are quite a few of them who use capitals all the time, especially maths and technical teachers. i wonder if they head straight for the caps lock when they're typing??
------------------------- "You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage." ~ Terry Pratchett ~
A gentle rebuff to some appears gruff. A first time mistake we all can make. To make a debate a topic it takes. When it seems as if some want to scream. There are those who must step on toes. It was not meant to exclude or offend. A better welcome we could have offered a new friend.
Goes to show if we act on our first impulse we might make the mistake of offending someone who did not know they had done wrong. The initial correction was made by the Moderator and it was a correct thing to do. Perhaps an email could have been sent to let that person know why it had been done. When we loose sight of what Quoteland means to us, we are then the same as all those other sites out there. The Moderators were correct and it is accepted that all caps. appear as screaming. Here's the kicker, no real harm, no foul right?
"And the stars never rise but I see the bright eyes."
It is true that in the business world, quite often among engineers and architects especially, a lot of men and a handfull of women will use all caps. When I studied engineering in college we were required to write in all caps, as was my grandfather (a 75-yr-old chemical engineer who graduated from college in 1947).
Internet etiquett is not on the same terms though. A letter typed in all caps is considered very unprofessional, unless the words in caps are used to add emphasis or are important and really need to stand out. For the most part it is hard to read, and does look overbearing, as though the author just has to be heard!
This is actually a great debate! I do not think anyone should be taking the comments so harshly. A little constructive criticism never hurt anyone. Maybe it saved someone out here from looking like an iniot in front of someone important who might have expected you to know the rules (you never know!) - HAH! Look at me misspelling i-d-i-o-t! Just proof of my point (or something .
