And if we dont feel like doing your own homework for you? What then?
"To run away from danger, instead of facing it, is to deny one's faith in man and God, even one's own self. It were better for one to drown oneself than live to declare such bankruptcy of faith." - Mahatma Gandhi, 1946
Posts: 3774 | Location: Disputed Zone | Registered: 01-10-05
Islam is really the way of life for the Muslims. It’s not really suitable or convenience for women, gays and other form of believers. They don't except anything too unrestrained - like a vagina gone wild or dog's fluid.
quote: i just needed some of your opinions to make up my own.
Marry one and you'll never have to make up your mind (they'll do it for you). You have to be a Muslim. There is no other option.
Just hope you are circumcised.
"Nunc Scio Quit Sit Amor" But it's still not premarital sex if you don't plan on getting married
I've just got up to some research and looks like your very narrow minded. I've read that women do have rights and every person in Islam has rights of their own. The women the men all play different roles in Islam. There is some truth in what these women had seen. Muslim girls, in countries such as France, Singapore and even Turkey, not allowed to go to school with their head coverings suffer oppression. Girls deprived of their rights to education, to speak their minds, girls forced into arranged marriages, women suffering domestic violence, honour killings, so on and so forth, are oppressed.
One could perhaps give non-Muslims the excuse for oppressing Muslim women due to their lack of understanding, their fear of the unknown, and even blame the sources of their information. Yet when Muslims oppress Muslim women, one must make a distinction between what constitute cultural practices and what is in the religion. The Islamic teachings are not always practiced by Muslims. Many cultural practices, even beliefs, are sexist. Throughout history, up till now, millions of women still suffer oppression. Muslim men who ill-treat their womenfolk lack understanding in the essence of Islamic teachings. They often quote verses out of context and use them to oppress women. These men are experts in claiming their rights, but are rather ignorant in fulfilling their rights towards their wives and daughters. As long as one continues to remain in a state of ignorance, the problem will persist. These people will never be able to do justice to a religion that came to liberate the weaker members of the society, namely, the women, the poor and the downtrodden from tyranny and injustice.
quote:Marry one and you'll never have to make up your mind (they'll do it for you)
considering the fact that Islam gives a women so much rights i guess maybe i should convert and marry a muslim.
quote:Just hope you are circumcised.
since theres a little misunderstanding about me being circumcised just in case you never realized I'm a female.
quote: I've just got up to some research and looks like your very narrow minded.
Ok. Like I care what you think.
quote:I've read that women do have rights and every person in Islam has rights of their own. The women the men all play different roles in Islam. There is some truth in what these women had seen.
Go back to my post. Did mentioned anything about "rights"? I only mentioned that it's "really not suitable or convenience for women". Unless you are narrow minded, you would assume that I talked about "rights".
Gee... let's see what's not really suitable or convenience about a Muslim girl? - How about swimming? - Diving? - Wearing a bikini (except in your own shower or infront of your husband) ... hell, what's a point of having an earring or a necklace? Better yet, hairs! - How about modeling (except for Muslim mag)? - How about going to prom? (except all girls prom). - Uniform problems in Western countries? - How about dating? Boys meet girl or whatever you want to call it? - No matter how hot it is, one must cover up. Have you seen those with iron cage? Is that the natural female habitat?
quote: Muslim girls, in countries such as France, Singapore and even Turkey, not allowed to go to school with their head coverings suffer oppression. Girls deprived of their rights to education, to speak their minds, girls forced into arranged marriages, women suffering domestic violence, honour killings, so on and so forth, are oppressed.
So you agreed that it's not so darn suitable or convenience?
quote: Yet when Muslims oppress Muslim women, one must make a distinction between what constitute cultural practices and what is in the religion.
Despite their geograpic differences, they are pretty much following the same book aren't they? What's your point anyway? I thought the topic is "Islam really a way of life"?
I am talking about Islam's way of life, what are you talking about?
quote: The Islamic teachings are not always practiced by Muslims.
Enlighten me please. Are they being practice by the KKK or the Koren boy bands for looks?
quote: Many cultural practices, even beliefs, are sexist. Throughout history, up till now, millions of women still suffer oppression.
Hallelujah to that! So that makes it ok for the Muslim? Or the Islam way? Remember that culture do changes but not the holy book.
Just think about it for a second, who came up with all these rules? All the rules that control women?
A. Men? B. Women?
Think hard now.
quote: Muslim men who ill-treat their womenfolk lack understanding in the essence of Islamic teachings. They often quote verses out of context and use them to oppress women. These men are experts in claiming their rights, but are rather ignorant in fulfilling their rights towards their wives and daughters. As long as one continues to remain in a state of ignorance, the problem will persist. These people will never be able to do justice to a religion that came to liberate the weaker members of the society, namely, the women, the poor and the downtrodden from tyranny and injustice.
Ignorant or not these men have a right to quote verses of the Koran. It's in the book. It's in the teaching. It's the Islamic ways. It has to be right. It can't change. So if sexist rules exist in the Koran then may be the Islam's way is not really the way of life but more like the way of life for a lot of men.
If you can quote all sort of sexist stuffs from the Koran then why bother trying to find the truth in it? If one can make up such an abserd information about women and the way to treat them, then the rest are probably just as made up as well.
quote:considering the fact that Islam gives a women so much rights i guess maybe i should convert and marry a muslim
Soooo muuuccchhh rights you will get especially the right to stay home, cook and clean. May be you'll share your husband with 3 other women if he is rich.
Remember that one darling.
"Nunc Scio Quit Sit Amor" But it's still not premarital sex if you don't plan on getting married
[This message was edited by KnockOut on 05-28-08 at 04:53 AM.]
haha you cared enough to quote it and send your message across
quote:Gee... let's see what's not really suitable or convenience about a Muslim girl? - How about swimming? - Diving?
- hello?? you've got Muslim female life savers out there saving lives and wearing appropriate swimming gears that cover the body.
quote: Wearing a bikini (except in your own shower or infront of your husband) ...
OH YEH go out there with bikinis and get judged by the size of my ass and breasts and looked and treated as a Sex object
- what is the meaning of having a husband?? hmmm dedicating your life to one person. so hey are you going to go around showing of your bikinis (maybe you have someone else to impress).
- and about the necklaces you don't go around showing the males your brand new or latest necklaces or earrings its more of the girls you want to impress that the fact that you got the hottest earrings and so on.
quote: - How about modeling (except for Muslim mag)? - How about going to prom? (except all girls prom). - Uniform problems in Western countries?
- nowadays you cant really go and model without a hot body. If you did you'd have people judging you laughing at you.
- who said Muslim girls cant go out to proms. As long as your intentions aren't to go there and strip yourself naked and make a fool of yourself. I've even gone to some proms with my Muslim friends and one of them even won best dress. Now theres some Muslims to compete with.
- I've never heard of uniform problems in America as long as you dress decently and your not out to seduce your boss ( and even in western societies you have women dressed up to impress ad even to some extent to seduce their bosses and receive a pay rise). =D
quote: How about dating? Boys meet girl or whatever you want to call it?
- Nowadays in society, are majority of boys interested in your personality or your bra size?? think about it there actually out there to get into your pants and who is going to get hurt??
- the women
- Muslims can get together and get to know each other which is similar to going out but no intimacy is allowed. besides you would get to know each other more by talking then having your tongues down each others throats.
quote: No matter how hot it is, one must cover up. Have you seen those with iron cage? Is that the natural female habitat?
- ha ha thats funny if its forty degrees your not going to go around wearing polar bear skins you can wear something like cotton which isn't hot and wear bright colors to reflect the suns heat as long as thir appropriate.
- hey do me favor and walk up to a few Muslims and ask them how they feel about their being covered and ask if Islam is convenient to them. And maybe compare their opinion of Islam with yours.
quote: Muslim girls, in countries such as France, Singapore and even Turkey, not allowed to go to school with their head coverings suffer oppression. Girls deprived of their rights to education, to speak their minds, girls forced into arranged marriages, women suffering domestic violence, honour killings, so on and so forth, are oppressed.
quote: So you agreed that it's not so darn suitable or convenience?
- you didn't understand what i was saying - first of all not given the chance to believe in what you believe in is being oppressed - not given the chance to express what you believe in is being oppressed - being forced into marriage is being oppressed - not given the right to education is being oppressed.
i can go on like this forever
this is whats going on in France, all religious beliefs are baned .
is that fair??
why cant i have the right to go to France and express my religion, my values and ethics. isn't that being oppressed??
Islam prevents all this
Muslim women have the rights to education, free marriage choice etc.
and a saying of the prophet(s) "seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave". this is meant for men and women and no women is to be deprived of her rights
quote: Despite their geograpic differences, they are pretty much following the same book aren't they? What's your point anyway? I thought the topic is "Islam really a way of life"?
I am talking about Islam's way of life, what are you talking about?
- they might have the same book but are they following it the right way. Okay think of it this way i go to church and we have the pope saying no to alcohol no to adultery an fornication and then don't some Christians go ahead and do the opposite aren't they following the same book?? - I'm pretty much talking about what your talking about
quote:Enlighten me please. Are they being practice by the KKK or the Koren boy bands for looks?
- you misunderstood me yet again maybe i should say it a little more clearly for you
- there are Muslims some practice it correctly, others don't take Islam seriously and don't practice it the way it should be practiced.
does thay make it easier darling??
quote:Many cultural practices, even beliefs, are sexist. Throughout history, up till now, millions of women still suffer oppression.
Hallelujah to that! So that makes it ok for the Muslim? Or the Islam way? Remember that culture do changes but not the holy book.
Just think about it for a second, who came up with all these rules? All the rules that control women?
A. Men? B. Women?
Think hard now.
- its true till now women are suffering from oppression not in Islam but in society not receiving equal work payments as the men. not receiving a job which they are capable to do even when the have the best qualifications, the man is chosen over her??
isn't that oppression??
even when society favors it??
think about it
quote: Ignorant or not these men have a right to quote verses of the Koran. It's in the book. It's in the teaching. It's the Islamic ways. It has to be right. It can't change. So if sexist rules exist in the Koran then may be the Islam's way is not really the way of life but more like the way of life for a lot of men.
If you can quote all sort of sexist stuffs from the Koran then why bother trying to find the truth in it? If one can make up such an abserd information about women and the way to treat them, then the rest are probably just as made up as well.
- they have the right to quote it BUT they must understand it before they imply it in their daily lives - besides we all comprehend and understand things differently which is why we think things differently if we all followed the teachings of Islam we would all be in peace. likewise with Christianity and any other religion
but we don't do that do we? -we do things for our own befits - for our own sustenance etc
quote: Soooo muuuccchhh rights you will get especially the right to stay home, cook and clean. May be you'll share your husband with 3 other women if he is rich.
Remember that one darling.
ha ha it actually depends with what kind of guy you end up with if you end up with an ignorant guy then thats a different story. if i do get married ill work and share the chores with my husband.
quote: - Nowadays in society, are majority of boys interested in your personality or your bra size?? think about it there actually out there to get into your pants and who is going to get hurt??
- the women
- Muslims can get together and get to know each other which is similar to going out but no intimacy is allowed. besides you would get to know each other more by talking then having your tongues down each others throats.
Wow. I've never felt more strongly about starting up my own "men's-rights" group than I have now. What a pathetic generalisation.
"To run away from danger, instead of facing it, is to deny one's faith in man and God, even one's own self. It were better for one to drown oneself than live to declare such bankruptcy of faith." - Mahatma Gandhi, 1946
Posts: 3774 | Location: Disputed Zone | Registered: 01-10-05
quote: - what is the meaning of having a husband?? hmmm dedicating your life to one person. so hey are you going to go around showing of your bikinis (maybe you have someone else to impress).
What is the meaning of having a wife if you cannot trust her to wear such clothings in public and know her distance?? It's about trust not about how she goes out and looks-or how other men look at her, but it depends all on her own damn giving actions.
Another thing, woman got rights, but what about their devorce rights?? They can never devorce their husbands on their own decison because it must be the husband who says he wants the devorce. He must say it three times I believe, but she got no choice to live with a man she may love and this man loves his other wives more than her.
Beauty-full ****ing life she has to live and accept (obey) to her man otherwise stone her ass, but then again they say that the stone rule don't apply anymore and thats horse shit.. You just watch, when it happens to the right man he will order it and others will join in-they will call her a slut, but he was the one who was sleeping with 4 other wives.. Beautiful life, yes just damn beauty-full..
It's a way of life, but at the same time it's a trouble-some life for many woman... Why do you think that most American Muslims are women?? Their asses are not as judged and they have the will to choose the way they believe in their God. Islam is a way of life that is lost in translation because there are so many of them who believe a little different than other do and thats the same with the Christanity crowd... Everything is lost in Translation...
A way of life, but not always a truth, but sometimes a shame for others.
"If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue with me, correct me - but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way." -Roger Ebert
[This message was edited by Topgun on 05-28-08 at 09:54 PM.]
Posts: 622 | Location: Tionesta Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: 09-22-05
While we are on the subject of sex object, most girls do not think that way but apparently Muslim men do!
"The white blouse is too transparent for girls and it becomes a source of attraction,” National Islamic Students Association of Malaysia vice-president Munirah Bahari
They may also wear a “baju kurung” and a headscarf is optional for Malay students. Munirah said that “covering up” according to Islamic precepts was important to fend off social ills, including “rape, sexual harassment and even premarital sex.”
“It becomes a distraction to men, who are drawn to it, whether or not they like looking at it,” she said, calling for a review of uniform policy so that it did not violate Islamic ideals.In multicultural Malaysia, home to majority-Muslim Malays as well as ethnic Chinese and Indians, female students at government schools have a choice of wearing a white blouse with a knee-length skirt or pinafore. It's nothing more than an excuse to push their mummy trend forward.
You really have to agree with them, that's it's really a way of life. The way of life that most women in the World want nothing to do with!
quote: hello?? you've got Muslim female life savers out there saving lives and wearing appropriate swimming gears that cover the body.
Again, it would fall in the catagories of inconvenience and not suitable. Again, you are saying like it's a good thing ... to cover most of your body. God forbit seeing a naked knee. Somebody might go wack off in the public restroom.
Just because someone cover up, doesn't make them noble. Hell, the most violent mofo are from these countries with cover up female human being.
quote: OH YEH go out there with bikinis and get judged by the size of my ass and breasts and looked and treated as a Sex object
First of all, if you are ugly then you are not much of a sex object. So don't flatter yourself just yet. Secondly, are you already a Muslim? Like I am a Muslim but I don't want to sound like a Muslim? I'd toss out the pork except for bacon?
Sex object could also be a woman waiting at home just for sex and raising children.
Now that's the real sex object the Muslim forgot to mention.
quote:what is the meaning of having a husband?? hmmm dedicating your life to one person. so hey are you going to go around showing of your bikinis (maybe you have someone else to impress).
Beside terrible sex every now and then? You have no right to speak for the rest of the world. People should do whatever they want .... not just listen to your little Kockran book.
quote: and about the necklaces you don't go around showing the males your brand new or latest necklaces or earrings its more of the girls you want to impress that the fact that you got the hottest earrings and so on.
Again, not convenience or suitable. More like what's the freaking point.
quote: nowadays you cant really go and model without a hot body. If you did you'd have people judging you laughing at you.
So you agree that it's not convenience to be a model.
Why are you dodging so hard? It's like I am telling you that it's hard to each without your hands - and you came back and say "there are people who can eat with their feet".
Duh!
quote:who said Muslim girls cant go out to proms. As long as your intentions aren't to go there and strip yourself naked and make a fool of yourself. I've even gone to some proms with my Muslim friends and one of them even won best dress. Now theres some Muslims to compete with.
quote: I've never heard of uniform problems in America as long as you dress decently and your not out to seduce your boss ( and even in western societies you have women dressed up to impress ad even to some extent to seduce their bosses and receive a pay rise).
quote: Nowadays in society, are majority of boys interested in your personality or your bra size??think about it there actually out there to get into your pants and who is going to get hurt??
Agree with BOH. This is Childish. I am going skip it.
quote:Muslims can get together and get to know each other which is similar to going out but no intimacy is allowed. besides you would get to know each other more by talking then having your tongues down each others throats.
Totally insulting. Who told you this? Your Muslim friend?
quote: if its forty degrees your not going to go around wearing polar bear skins you can wear something like cotton which isn't hot and wear bright colors to reflect the suns heat as long as thir appropriate.
Again, you are making the most out of the dog's collar.
quote:hey do me favor and walk up to a few Muslims and ask them how they feel about their being covered and ask if Islam is convenient to them. And maybe compare their opinion of Islam with yours.
Again, like a dog is getting us to his collar. So let's say 500 million Muslim girls love to wear that crap. I can easily find 2 billion women would want to.
A matter of fact, they will probably say ____ you!
quote:first of all not given the chance to believe in what you believe in is being oppressed
not given the chance to express what you believe in is being oppressed
Not really. Islamic are pretty much against the western ways. So most people don't believe in the Islamic ways.
They are not oppressed. In contary, they are happy.
quote: - being forced into marriage is being oppressed - not given the right to education is being oppressed.
Wow! You think?
quote: this is whats going on in France, all religious beliefs are baned
That's not entirely true is it? Except may be if you heard it from the Muslim. They are so darn sensitive when it comes to their religion.
quote:why cant i have the right to go to France and express my religion, my values and ethics. isn't that being oppressed??
So you are a Muslim. Stop pretending to make up your mind about Islam. You mind'd already made up.
quote:Muslim women have the rights to education, free marriage choice etc.
May be in your world but not everywhere. Arranged marriages are usual with in a Muslim community.
quote: a saying of the prophet(s) "seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave". this is meant for men and women and no women is to be deprived of her rights
[i-Hadis, Vol. 3, p. 137) Abu Sayeed al-Khodri reported that Mohammed was talking to a group of women when he said, "... I see the majority of you will go to Hell." The women asked why, to which Mohammed responded, "You often curse and are ungrateful to your companions." He then told them they had a basic defect in their nature, to which they responded, "How?" Mohammed answered, "Is not the attestation (knowledge and witness) of a women only worth half of a man's? And that is on account of her short intelligence."
(Al Hadis, Vol. 2, p. 692) Ibn Ma`sud reported from the Messenger of Allah who said, "A woman is like a private part (sex organ). When she goes out (walking) the devil casts a glance at her (in lust)"
(Koran 4:16) If any one of your women is guilty of lewdness ...confine them until death claims them.
(Koran 4:34) ...As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds and BEAT THEM...
(Al Hadis, Vol. 1, p. 215) Omar reported from the Holy Prophet who said, "No man shall be questioned for beating his wife."
(Al Hadis, Vol. 2, p. 657) Oqbah-b- A`mer reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "The most equitable of the conditions of marriage is that you should fulfil that (dowry) with which you have made private parts lawful."
(Sahih Muslim Hadith Chapter 619) Selling a cat, selling a dog (unless it is a working dog), and earning of prostitutes(unless they are non-muslims),... are all forbidden.[/i
quote: they might have the same book but are they following it the right way. Okay think of it this way i go to church and we have the pope saying no to alcohol no to adultery an fornication and then don't some Christians go ahead and do the opposite aren't they following the same book??
They have book already. And they take like it is. Who to argue with them? It's in the Koran!
quote: there are Muslims some practice it correctly, others don't take Islam seriously and don't practice it the way it should be practiced.does thay make it easier darling??
Well it's in the Koran darling. How else should I practice? If Allah told me that I will be rewarded for killing Allah's enemy ... then I should put a bomb on me and kill them all.
I am following the Koran. What are you following?
Selectively?
quote: its true till now women are suffering from oppression not in Islam but in society not receiving equal work payments as the men. not receiving a job which they are capable to do even when the have the best qualifications, the man is chosen over her??
isn't that oppression??
Yes it is and so is your Koran.
quote: if we all followed the teachings of Islam we would all be in peace. likewise with Christianity and any other religion
Not true. The Koran specifically said that I will be rewarded if I kill Allah's enemy.
World peace darling?
quote: ha ha it actually depends with what kind of guy you end up with if you end up with an ignorant guy then thats a different story. if i do get married ill work and share the chores with my husband.
If your husband is a Muslim then you would be doing all the house work.
Just hope your parents arrange you with somebody not so ugly ha? But may be you are not so good looking yourself.... so ... may be you are right for each other.
"Nunc Scio Quit Sit Amor" But it's still not premarital sex if you don't plan on getting married
Now that is an interesting post. You’ve made quite a few doozies here.
----------------------------- "In all of our hearts lies a longing for a Sacred Romance. It will not go away in spite of our efforts over the years to anesthetize or ignore its song, or attach it to a single person or endeavor." Brent Curtis
[This message was edited by eagleandchild on 05-31-08 at 01:57 PM.]
Posts: 582 | Location: CA, USA | Registered: 11-12-07
you have written yourself that women are sex objects by sitting at home raising children. Muslims give women freedom of choice, their allowed to do what they want yet we still see in western countries women being oppressed and being paid less then men for doing exactly the same job. Oppression is not protecting yourself from the evil of men but its being forced by the public to reveal your sexual ornaments (your vagina and wearing a plunging neckline to a job interview just so you can get the job) for men to see. It is not only women in Islam who have to cover up, almost every religion demands their women to cover up, like the Christians, who couldn't leave their homes just a decade ago without being covered up and have their head covered when the visited the church. But religions change just so that they can be convinient fo r the life styles. Let me ask you a question..where did you come from? Who created you? SCience? where did science come from? or if you say you came from your mum, where did your mum come from? And her mum and her mum? I have wasted so much of my time on trying to convince you about Islam because you are a narrow minded arrogant person who perceives all of your opinions by stereo-typing and producing your opinion on what you hear on the media, not from what Islam really is about. All i ask from God is to open up your eyes and your heart.
quote: you have written yourself that women are sex objects by sitting at home raising children.
Could be. You don't have to be on FHM to be sex objects.
quote: give women freedom of choice, their allowed to do what they
No they don't. "A woman is half a man" remember the lovely Koran? They are one of husband's belongings. He can beat her if she ever stray or get out of line. Why don't you just admit that women are slaves in Islam? And I am not talking about Britney's song, "I am a slave for you".
quote: in western countries women being oppressed and being paid less then men for doing exactly the same job.
And one day this will change but your stubborn Koran stay the same forever.
quote: Oppression is not protecting yourself from the evil of men but its being forced by the public to reveal your sexual ornaments (your vagina and wearing a plunging neckline to a job interview just so you can get the job) for men to see.
Sexual ornaments?? Love that. I talk to my girlfriends like this all the time. Have you have your sexual ornament's upgrade (like a boob job)? I also love it when a Muslim girl is not a virgin, they have a religion method where you can restore the virginity back to the sexual ornament (vagina). I mean ... who are you fooling dear?
You are right, sometimes women play by men's rules. You should know who wrote the Koran right?
Men.
quote:you are a narrow minded arrogant person who perceives all of your opinions by stereo-typing and producing your opinion on what you hear on the media, not from what Islam really is about.
You bring nothing to this debate. You are just another arrogant narrow-minded Muslim who think that you are right. Are you here to debate or you are here to preach? If you can't stand the opposing view then go to your Muslim community. Muslim web. Embrace Allah ... kiss the carpet ... or do what ever it is you do.
quote: It is not only women in Islam who have to cover up, almost every religion demands their women to cover up
Stop making claims without proof. Where you got that from? Your Muslim friends?
quote: all of your opinions by stereo-typing and producing your opinion on what you hear on the media, not from what Islam really is about.
For God sake stop talking to me like you know me. You don't know jack. I am actually having dinner with a very strict Muslim woman tomorrow night.
I've read the Koran. I understand the Islamic way of life a lot more than you imagine or give credit for.
quote: All i ask from God is to open up your eyes and your heart.
Funny you should say that. Logic works both ways. I think you are more stubborn about your God and your Koran than I am. You are so such that you have to be right.
OPEN YOUR EYES!
quote: To you be your way and to me be mine
If you going to give copout answer like "it's subjective" or "it's a matter of opinion", then don't bother coming to this debate forum. What's the point?
Again, are you here to debate or to preach?
quote:Let me ask you a question..where did you come from? Who created you? SCience? where did science come from? or if you say you came from your mum, where did your mum come from? And her mum and her mum?
I don't know. I don't care to know. It's a mystery. I don't need answer. A lot of people do ... that's why they turn to religion.
quote: I have wasted so much of my time on trying to convince you about Islam
So you are a Muslim pretending to be a non-Mulsim deciding to be a Muslim? Why are you trying to convince me? I don't think I'll ever be a Muslim. Like ever!
This is a debate forum. Not a preaching forum.
"Nunc Scio Quit Sit Amor" But it's still not premarital sex if you don't plan on getting married
quote:You bring nothing to this debate. You are just another arrogant narrow-minded Muslim who think that you are right. Are you here to debate or you are here to preach? If you can't stand the opposing view then go to your Muslim community. Muslim web. Embrace Allah ... kiss the carpet ... or do what ever it is you do.
first of all I'm a Christian born my parents are Christian but i don't believe in the Christians teachings so i don't know what that makes me at the moment. so I'm kinda just looking through different religions were there are answers to my questions.
I'm here to debate. I'm not preaching how can i preach with a religion i haven't embraced yet.
quote: For God sake stop talking to me like you know me. You don't know jack. I am actually having dinner with a very strict Muslim woman tomorrow night.
I've read the Koran. I understand the Islamic way of life a lot more than you imagine or give credit for.
muslim woman?? she would actually sit and have dinner with someone like you sheesh i feel sorry for her , not knowing the fact that in front of everyone you called her holy book "kockran".
quote: This is a debate forum. Not a preaching forum.
i agree with you I've been doing nothing but debating with you.
quote:I agree with you I've been doing nothing but debating with you.
With what exactly? May be your should read the debate tutorial forum on top of the debate forum. What makes Islam so great? They say that God is great but so doesn other reglions. Why Islam? Because your friends are Muslim? Like my friend wear torn Levis so you wear them too?
quote: all I'm a Christian born my parents are Christian but i don't believe in the Christians teachings
Why is that? Beside "I just don't believe in it"? What makes the Islam's story so much better? Because they don't eat pork and you are a fan of the movie Babe or what?
The bible is older than the Koran I can tell you this. Who is the original then? How old is Muhammad? He is only about 700 years old so they religion can't be older than its founder. The Muslim claims that Christianity is in the Koran. Yeah, guess what, they have time to write about it since it has been around BEFORE them.
What branch of Islam will you apply anyway? They are some radical Islamic groups. I am sure you know/heard of these violent mofos. But they are a part of the Islam right? They follow the same book, just took it to the next level.
Just answer this: how is it "a good way of life" when people are using it to persuade others to go to war? To kill and quote it directly from the Koran. The verse must be a little subjective.
quote: muslim woman?? she would actually sit and have dinner with someone like you sheesh i feel sorry for her , not knowing the fact that in front of everyone you called her holy book "kockran
Actually we like to trade secret on sexual positions.
"Nunc Scio Quit Sit Amor" But it's still not premarital sex if you don't plan on getting married
[This message was edited by KnockOut on 06-04-08 at 11:44 PM.]
quote: I'm here to debate. I'm not preaching how can i preach with a religion i haven't embraced yet.
You don't have to embrace it to believe it. You preach it to us, but we already know it and we do not care what you have to offer us. You posted asking us for help and we answered, which we did not want your judgement, but we wanted your proof. All this time you go along and you preach that women have rights, but you prove none. Stop it.
We know women are not equally treated and we know that they do not have the freedom that they would desire to have. They accept their faith because they believe it, but don't stand their and tell me that a Muslim woman has always approved of the man that her father has picked out for her rather than her loved one. Women have been punished badly for refusing their fathers man and many have been put to death for examples of men being in power. Men rule over the women. Nothing will ever change that-or so I mean you, but in the near future the religon will change indeed because all religions change.
Why do they need to change?? To give more freedom and understanding of newer cultures. Science proves many things as well. There are indeed other reason, but these are some.
In Islim the womans place is by her man until her man is done with her, but not the other way around. Why not??
Because that would grant women freedom.. A woman cannot get a job unless her man says it's ok and why not just let the woman decide herself?? Because that gives her freedom..
That gives her rights!!! Which she already has in America!!
Their way of life is also in some way powerful and for example they must be respected for the way that they will fall to their knees at any given time or place-they will pray to Allah and that takes courage. That one hell of a way to be holy and they do it 5 times a day and this is total focus to your faith, which I believe is brave.
But do not preach what you cannot prove and do not preach in a damn debate room because it only gets you in trouble....
"If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue with me, correct me - but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way." -Roger Ebert
Posts: 622 | Location: Tionesta Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: 09-22-05
You know I wish people would understand that there are differing levels of practicing a religion. There's the moderate and there's the radical.
Many of the accusations here are really unfounded, I don't know where to start.
quote: Muslim girls, in countries such as France, Singapore and even Turkey, not allowed to go to school with their head coverings suffer oppression. Girls deprived of their rights to education, to speak their minds, girls forced into arranged marriages, women suffering domestic violence, honour killings, so on and so forth, are oppressed.
Evidence? True there are situations like that but you have to get the context right too. They do not wear the headcoverings (Tudongs) to school but they are allowed to wear it outside. The reason being, the government wants to foster a unity among the students, wearing a Tudong into a classroom already creates a difference among the races. So all students wear uniforms to have a commonality between them, but are allowed to wear what they want outside of classrooms. I admit it's a bit of a socialising motivation but it's done with good intentions. It's not the oppression you think it is. At university level everyone is free to wear what they want because it is believed at that age the students will already learn how to accept differences and be tolerant.
As a female reading these arguments, I feel subjectified instead of being defended.
There are of course places where women are ill-treated, but I believe religion is just mostly just used as an excuse instead of the reason. Please do not take these examples and use it to vilify the religion as a whole. And the way the arguments are phrased makes women sound like helpless victims that needs to be saved from themselves.
Actually Christianity and Islam share many similar threads, which I would drudge up if I had the time. Moses is actually considered a holy prophet in Islam. They share similar teachings such as submission to God and even common demons. I believe one of them is call Mephistopheles. They have angels who are messengers and who glorify God. They believe in a 'Judgement Day'.
Islam could be considered more 'a way of life' than Christianity, which would be more of a religion. It governs diet, daily life and even governance of a territory.
I am not a Muslim myself but Muslims make up one of the majorities in my country and is the most widespread religion in my part of the world. For the most part I haven't seen such horrors as the posts here have depicted.
It is true in Islam men are allowed to marry up to four wives, but only if they are able to provide for each of them equally and considerately. The Mormons do practice polygamy as well I believe. Women do have equal rights to succession as men. Non-Muslim men have to convert if they marry a Muslim wife, that actually serves to give women some power.
You also have to consider that women's rights are a recent thing even in Christianity. Epidurals were once considered a sin because it was believed since Eve gave the forbidden fruit to Adam, the pain of childbirth was to be her punishment for committing that sin. Divorce for women? Ruination.
But lets not compare religions and which is better, or which one is older. Older doesn't mean wiser. saFii7(I can't help but notice the Muslim connotations of this name) if you are truly interested in learning more about Islam, why not consult a religious teacher? Or you can read about it perhaps in the 'Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science' They have several good articles on Islam. You can try Vol. 588.
quote: Maybe you should seek some wisdom from the Dalai Lama or meditate on some of the Buddha's teachings, and become "enlightened."
That sounds incredible patronising and disrespectful. Why drag in Buddhism? Or the Dalai Lama?
"Perhaps no person can be a poet, or even enjoy poetry, without a certain unsoundness of mind." - Thomas Babington Macaulay
Posts: 372 | Location: It's a fine city. | Registered: 01-07-05
It comes off to me totally brainless to discuss something that has yet not perfectly come into play. No Muslim that I know of follows Islam every bit. On what grounds are you debating then? In my opinion, this topic is more of a question to the doctrine of Islam than what merely Muslims have to say. On a different point of observation, discussing Islam, you might as well seek to discuss christianity, Hinduism or whatnot. Come to think of it. Do their followers not take their own religion as something that guides them into 'real way of life' ?
