Im a huge proponet of suicide and I am angered by the fact that there is no suicide pill available on the open market. Why must people do insanely violent things like slitting their wrist or blowing their head off in order to end their hopelessly depressing lives? There should be a painless alternative in the form suicide pills. Much like the drug used in lethal injections. People are going to commit suicide anyway so why not make their short lives a little easier?

What do you think quoteland?

ps- Dont throw in the towel, hang yourself with it.

so, let me get this straight, you're arguing for euthanasia in the broadest forms. I will tell you now that if I was writing this reply two years ago my response would have been very different but now i would say NO! NOT NOW! NOT EVER!
The ending of a life is a huge responsibilty and decision to take even when the mind making it is 100% rational and someone suicidal is not rational!
Throw to one side the religious arguement. I'm not a christian, I'm a pagan, but life to me is sacred. My twin sister is an atheist and life to her is sacred.
I have the scars on my wrists from attempting suicide. Two years ago I would have welcomed a sucide pill and downed it, but I was not rational. Depression is an illness, one that totally screws around with your perceptions of the world and yourself. It's a hard illness to shake but it can be done. I'm so happy at the moment. I have a wonderful boyfriend, my parents and I are communicating clearly for the first time since I don't know how long. I have a bright future ahead of me. Chances are it can be this way for most people, as long as they and those around them fight for it.

You wrote >>>Depression is an illness, one that totally screws around with your perceptions of the world and yourself.<<<

Depression is an illness. And allowing a clinically depressed person to commit suicide is not right. They do not have the capacity to make a rational decision.

My post is in regard to unhappiness. Being unhappy is not an illness. Many rational minded people are unhappy and do not wish to live. They have the capacity to evaluate their lives and decide whether or not they want to live it. If they choose to die, they should have an easier option than jumping off a bridge or hanging themselves.

being unhappy to the extent of wanting to kill yourself has a name...suicidal depression.
You may think that you are perfectly rational, but if your thoughts are so fixed on suicide that you would welcome a suicide pill, most psychologists would clasify you as depressed.
You don't realise you're ill when you're depressed. That's the point I was trying to make.
You only realise how screwed up in the head you were when you're better.
At the time I was depressed I thought I was perfectly sane, rational and logical. But I wasn't. No-one has to live an existance they hate true. But surely it's better to change the circumstances than to end the existance altogether?
Suicide is an easy option. Living takes guts but it's a choice I'm glad I made.

>>>being unhappy to the extent of wanting to kill yourself has a name...suicidal depression.<<<

Thats such nonsense. Youre telling me that any state of mind besides happiness is an illness? Unhappiness is not an illness!

Wanting to die is NOT an illness either. Its a way out for some people. A lot of people want to die but are too afraid to kill themselves because the methodoligies for suicide are too violent or painful.

I think there should be options.

Ok, first of all there's a reason that there isn't a suicide pill. Suicide (or the attempt of it) is illegal. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that law, but outlawing something and them releasing a product to make it quicker and easier wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

Secondly you're blurring the distinction between 'unhappy' and 'suicidally depressed'. If you are suicidally depressed, you've gone beyond the realm of simple unhappiness, and are very probably beyond rational thought.

In many cases of somebody survivng an attempt at suicide they realize as they're falling off of the bridge (or whatever) that they do want to live. Some do attempt it again and again, but some have their perspective altered by the immensity of what they've done.

"I demand to be minty!" -Happy Noodle Boy

You wrote >>>>you're blurring the distinction between 'unhappy' and 'suicidally depressed'. If you are suicidally depressed, you've gone beyond the realm of simple unhappiness, and are very probably beyond rational thought.<<<<

I strongly disagree. You seem to believe that not wanting to live is an illness. Why? Is it not possible for somewhat to logically decide that their life is not worth living?

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem (state of mind). It is also the quintissential self-centered act. It is not the product of a logical, rational thought process with the possible exception of someone who is terminally ill with intractable pain.
Few of us live in euphoria. We all suffer pain (physical and/or emotional). It is a part of living we cannot escape. Why do some work their way through it and go on to live productive lives and others can not or choose not to? If I had the answer to that I would be wealthy and probably would never have heard of this site.
There are a few things I do know. Although I have little or no control over events outside myself, there are people I care for and who care for me. As "low" as I've felt at times, and I have considered suicide as an alternative, I could NEVER leave those people I love with the ultimate guilt trip that they had failed me in some terrible way. Self destruction is one thing but destroying the lives of others is another: not a legacy I want to leave.
Generally, when I was at my lowest points, I later recognized that I had felt sorry for myself and crawled into my own belly button to wallow in my self-pity. Through whatever methodology, intrinsic or extrinsic, I was eventually able to pull myself out and start living again. The usual motivator involved perceiving someone else in greater need than I was, and reaching a hand to help.
Suicide seems to absolve the indulger of any responsibility for his/her own life; they feel unloved, unappreciated, un -everything. Depressed. This degree of emotional vulnerability is not a state in which anyone should be making any major life decisions.

This is a merely practical rather than a philisophical reason, but the existence of such a pill would make murder much easier.

Also would it be over the counter? What if you mistook it for an aspirin or a laxative? undefined

You wrote >>>Suicide seems to absolve the indulger of any responsibility for his/her own life; they feel unloved, unappreciated, un -everything. Depressed. <<<<

What if a person hates themself? Many people would argue that you cannot love life until you love yourself. If you know that you will never love/accept yourself, then why live?

Suicide is very rational given this situation, in my mind. Would you agree?

I don't think that suicide is automatically a "bad" thing, however I think that distributing the means to easily kill oneself to the masses is a BIG mistake, although Puppycow's idea of mixing murderurs getting their hands on it, I mean you could easily just say "hey kid want some candy?" or "Oh, you have a headach? Here's an asparine." a painless and traceless way to kill somebody is a horrible plan.

Now, as for suicide in general I think that SOME people can rationally evaluate their problems out in their mind but these are few and far between. If you are the type of suicider that has just lost his job, his wife left him, and just got good and sloshed at a bar, then let's face it, you have not made a "rational" decision if you kill yourself because your life is going badly NOW.

I respect your opinion Pavlov's Dog and I'm convinced there are quasi-reasonable reasons for suicide, but I can't think of any right now. Could you please give me an example of where suicide is justified, because I'd like to argue, but I want to be fully informed on what my opponent is.

By the way, I love your screen name .

+++Seth_X+++

~~~ "If you feed a man
a
fish, you feed him for a
day. If you teach a man
to
fish, you feed him for
life." ( Japanese
Proverb )

You wrote >>>I don't think that suicide is automatically a "bad" thing, however I think that distributing the means to easily kill oneself to the masses is a BIG mistake, although Puppycow's idea of mixing murderurs getting their hands on it, I mean you could easily just say "hey kid want some candy?" or "Oh, you have a headach? Here's an asparine." a painless and traceless way to kill somebody is a horrible plan.<<<

Absolutely, I never got to articulate how suicide pills should be distributed. Obviously they should not be over the counter drugs, that would be a disaster for obvious reasons.

I think that in order for anyone to obtain such pills, they should have to be evaluated by doctors to assure that they are not clinically depressed. Chemically, they should be balanced. Depressed people cannot think rationally and thus, dont have the capacity to make such a huge decision. But if a person with a stable mindset decides that their life is not worth living, they should be able to get this analysis, and if they pass, end their lives. It would be more of an assisted suicide type of deal. The pills would never be exposed to anyone but those wanting to die.

As for reasons, who cares? People want to die for many reasons. Serious illness, contemptment of themselves, or a contemptment of the world. If a person can rationally decide to die, they should have an option.

Personally, Im against suicide and would never do it, but I think others should be able to choose if they have the capacity.

You also wrote >>>By the way, I love your screen name <<<

Thanks man. When I registered here, I had a hard time choosing between Pavlov'sDog or FistCanBeAVerb... I think I made the right choice.

[This message was edited by Pavlov'sDog on 05-01-01 at 01:27 PM.]

[This message was edited by Pavlov'sDog on 05-01-01 at 01:30 PM.]

My arguement is still the same. Ignoring the whole terminal illness issue, a person asking for a suicide pill would be classified as suicidally depressed by any psychologist. No-one's life is so beyond hope that they should just give up. And we shouldn't give up on them either.

I have been following this one and would like to add my two cent opinion here. Suicide is the act of someone not mentally balanced. State the facts, argue the point but the bottom line is that if you take your life then what have you left the world? I personally know what suicide does to those left to survive the devestaion that this leaves and it is not an answer no matter how "unhappy" a person is. There are medications to treat those who have clinical depression. What happens to four young children when their Mother decided that suicide was her only option left? Try telling a ten year old little girl it's her fault "Mommy couldn't deal with the pressure's of every day life so took too many pills ." How about the young 16 year old boy who Od's on a bottle of pills because his girlfriend broke up with him? Or better yet the young woman who seems to have it all, but decides to point a 38 at her head to ease the pain in her heart and mind?(Been there done that!) Oh I know lets just hand these people a pill and let them do it in a less messy way! How could one even begin to argue the point that this is a way for people who are unhappy to end it all. There is help out there but if your not willing to reach out then your the one who is to blame for your own suffering. Physicain assisted suicide I am for because I feel that a person should have the right to know how their final days are going to end when they are dealing with a terminal illness but no way in hell just because you "just want to die"...direct the nasty remarks to Gemini7tat....
Nothing can hurt more then to take your life and leave loved ones behind to figure out why!!

Genimi, you wrote "Nothing can hurt more then to take your life and leave loved ones behind to figure out why!!"

Who cares? No one should be obliged to live their life just because others will be "sad" if they die. People shouldnt live their lives just to keep their family or their friends happy. If a person wants to die, let them. Live and die by your own accord, not to salvage the emotions of others. People should live (or die) for themselves, nobody else.

Furthermore, I also noticed from your post that you have bought into the lie that anyone who wants to die must be "ill". Thats insane. Plenty of people who want to die are perfectly stable. They just dont see any reason to live. Why should they continue a dismal existence just because "people will be sad" if they commit suicide. Thats balogna.

Wake up man, life isnt good for everyone! Its not abnormal or "an illness" to want to die. Its perfectly sane.

I say letting people exit this world is a greater act of humanitarianism than making them live a long pathetic existence in which they want to die every second of it.

[This message was edited by Pavlov'sDog on 05-01-01 at 08:45 PM.]

Who cares about loved ones? why shouldn't you think about others, many a person has killed themself because they couldn't bear to live without an individual ( ex: Romeo and Juliett, just a story but oh well.......) if you cared for someone in your life I personally think that you owe them at least a little bit. Otherwise don't get close to people in the first place.

However I can't bring myself to say ALL suicide is an illness, but the problem I have is most people who seriously contemplat suicide but fail to or decide not to end up regretting even coming anywhere near it after they have let time pass and their problems have gone away. Too many people take such drastic measures for things that will go away, I think that things like euthenasia are alright, if your whole life is doomed to be one long suffering session then of course. but deaths, hardcore boredom, job loss, drugs, etc..., are no reason to take your life. I've never been cursed with a part of my life that was so horrenous that I wished to end it so I'm in no position to judge, however I think that people who are in the middle of a horrible situation are not good judges either.
Utopias and Hells are few and far between in this world (at least in our zeroith - 1st first world countries), there are many pits to fall into, but as a rule there is usually a ladder that leads out ofthe pit, however most are too depressed to see or even look for the ladders. If you are amoung the select people who get caught permenently then suicide is an option, But I could never condone suicide pills or the suicide booths from Futurama (( a TV show )). It just CAN"T be open to the general population because peoples live wouldn't have a chance to get any better.
And by the way I don't think pills are the best medium, if you have a reasonably good gun and shoot straight through the brain it shouldn't hurt, a pill is just asthetically pleasing to people who are still alive.

+++Seth_X+++

~~~ "If you feed a man a
fish, you feed him for a
day. If you teach a man to
fish, you feed him for
life." ( Japanese
Proverb )

Okay, here goes nothing!

First of all, I am a "suicidal bitch" and I would be in favor of a suicide pill. I do think there should be strict regulations on the availability of such a drug to prevent accidental use of it. However, not all suicidal people are irrational, I am not irrational, just realistic. Come on people, if you really hate life or yourself that much, you should seek help, but when help fails, go ahead and take the stupid pill!! I know there will be many people who disagree with me, but it's an opinion that I have thought about quite a lot. I personally would be one of the first in line for this pill, but another thing mentioned earlier is coming into my head now (good thing, otherwise my head would be completely empty). About having to be evaluated by a psychologist or someone of the sorts, if they knew you were going to leave their "supervision" and seek this pill, they would have you committed and you would have a new wardrobe of some nice, white, straight jackets and a new home in a padded room!! Any other suggestions on how this pill could be obtained without a mental health professional knowing about it.

-Jess

Pavlov's Dog, ringing some bells here think you'll start to droll? One this is a debate forum not your place to attack each persons remarks because you think your's is the only answer. Second read the profile and the post of the person you are replying to. I am a woman and you apparently didn't read my post because it's even in there about myself having tried suicide.

"Or better yet the young woman who seems to have it all, but decides to point a 38 at her head to ease the pain in her heart and mind?(Been there done that!)" Taken from my other post.

Next hop over to the writer's forum and check out "Russian Games" that poem has it all. Pain, passion, emptiness, faliure, degradation oh yeah and what the blood does when you pull the trigger and the gun enters your brain. Ever see someone commit suicide? Not a pretty sight and the mess you have to clean up afterwards, now thats something. Know how hard it is to get blood stains out of furniture? Or off the wall after it's been left there to be photographed and examined? Try explaing to a child why Mommy, Daddy, Brother, sister, auntie, uncle or even the babysitter had to do what they did. You start a debate and yet you provide no concrete support for your debate.You only support is "I think it should be so and thats the final answer." Next point, no I did not buy into the shit about assisted suicide being the answer to terminal illness, I've seen first hand the suffering people go through when there is no cure, no hope, no end to the damn pain. Hey you know how long it takes for someone to be "snowed" with morphine? The damn stuff stops working after awhile. Then what do you give them for their suffering? Ever seen an eight year old child hooked up to every machine they have and yet he's still brain dead but the machines and his loved ones won't let him die in peace? Watch as a nurse approahes his parents and asks for permission to donate their child's organs and he's not even dead yet! Ever attend the funneral of that very same child and watch his parents loose it? Watch a 6 foot man stand there and cry like his soul had just been ripped out? Seeing his only son dead in a casket? Watch him go out to his car and get a gun and try to end his own life because his grief was so bad? Don't advocate something that affects others. Suicide is a selfish act and if you think different then apparently you were never born of a mother and father. You have never known what it means to be human.

As a side note to the post that is just above mine here...Damn straight I'll stop you each and every time I think you might be in danger of taking your own life. Don't post what the whole world can see and read becasue you just handed them the answers to step in and stop you. I have been there and you damn well know it!!! Wanna be the one to explain to the baby why his Jess isn't here any more? Don't bother with a reply here, this is personal and I'll discuss this with you tonight.

[This message was edited by Gemini7tat on 05-02-01 at 10:05 AM.]

Far be it from me to stop a debate that's reached a fever pitch. But I just want to know what we're debating here. I'm listening to two separate issues, both worth discussing.

1. Should there be a (legal) suicide pill? This question really is about whether or not suicide should be legal. Excellent question.

This easily leads into the second issue:

2. Is someone who attempts suicide in a rational, normal state of mind? Or are they depressed, feeling out of control, etc. and therefore not able to make the decision whether or not to take their own life?

As I understand it, it is currently illegal to do it. (I'm not sure of the penalty, but I know life insurance policies become null and void.) And I know in the event of terminal illness, Mr. Kevorkian has helped point out the government's view on the subject.

But why did they bother to make a law?

Are there people in a rational state of mind that might have good reason to kill themselves? Yes. Someone with Alzheimer's disease, facing a long, slow death as they lose their mind. Someone with terminal cancer in a lot of pain that will only get worse until they die.

Are there people in an irrational, temporarily depressed state of mind that would be helped if there were barriers in the way (laws and control of substances) of committing suicide? Yes.

In the first case, a law probably won't make much of a difference. In the second, it just might help save someone. Again, the law seems to have simply chosen the lesser of two evils.

Suicide is the eighth-leading cause of death among Americans.

More than 30,000 Americans take their lives annually, amounting to more than three suicides for every two murders, and more than 650,000 Americans attempt suicide annually.

Community-based suicide prevention programs that build life skills and connections to family and community support are factors known to reduce the risk of suicide.

Factors associated with suicide include depression, feelings of hopelessness and helplessness, and alcohol and other drug abuse.

May 6-12 has been designated National Suicide Prevention Week