I know this thread will be met with dissatisfaction among many out there. And I know that while Obama's term has not even begun yet, and that I should give him a go before I pass too many judgments, one of his recent potential cabinet choices absolutely shocked me.
Obama's apparent socialistic based ideals highly disturbed me throughout his campaign (and is one of the main reasons I never considered voting for him. Its too bad so many others voted based on race.). He recently began seeking advice for how to transition his economic plans into fruition once he takes the helm.
One of the people he has chosen to help advise him on the economy transition plan is governor Jennifer Granholm of Michigan.
Obama tapped Granholm several times during the election to speak about the need for alternative energy jobs and her inclusion in his economic advisory committee is absolutely preposterous.
My home town is roughly a half hour south of the Michigan-Ohio border and I know quite a few Michiganders (especially considering I have family that live in Michigan). There is not a single person I have ever talked to that has anything but disdain for the woman.
She has led Michigan into such a terrible state as to lead the nation in unemployment for the past three years (at least), and has done little that has actually helped auto-industry in Detroit she feels so compelled to "save."
Granholm is quite possibly one of the worst choices to advise anyone on good economic practices. She is being considered for the position of secretary of energy on Obama's cabinet, but that decision is not yet final.
One of her intentions is to ask the government to help bail out the auto-industry:
quote:Granholm also is worried about the domestic automakers, and is pushing Congress to provide more money to help them survive. On Thursday, auto and union leaders were on Capitol Hill to discuss billions of dollars more in financial help for Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, including aid for a possible GM-Chrysler merger.
quote:"I believe that Congress understands the importance of saving this industry," Granholm told reporters Thursday.
The article is more or less the same no matter where you find it (these two links provide some different information) and was published by the Associated Press.
It is very good to see Obama is wasting no time collecting people who want to use the "power of pull" to affect their own images and political careers. I will never understand how a government bailout of the auto-industry will help it do anything more than limp on as a cripple until it finally falls apart (assuming it stays the same course it is on).
Whats even more amusing would be the proposed government merger of GM-Chrysler. Clearly there are socialists in our government that have no problem creating monopolies or limiting the market share and power of competitors by forming large aggregates, yet try to limit this from occurring under typical business relations through ambiguous and unconstitutional Anti-Trust laws.
If Governor Granholm truly is one of Obama's intended advice sources, this constitutes a horrible lapse in judgment on his part and is little more than a political stunt to say "Look I'm helping the auto-industries by giving them your money," "Look I'm helping the state with the highest unemployment rate by taking advice from the very person who was charged with fixing and preventing such problems in Michigan and in turn led her state to be one of the worst off economically and job-wise in the nation."
I'm also ever baffled why anyone votes for a candidate based on his or her "Job creation pledges." I guess no one bothers to realize the only way these candidates can create jobs is either by creating government controlled jobs, having the government hijack a current industry, or having the government subsidize the industry with tax-payer money. All of these solutions make the market worse off in the long run.
If this turns out to be the typical judgments made by Obama when selecting those who are to help him lead this nation, I want to laugh in the faces of those who voted for him expecting something to change.
Once again, I will wait until he is in term to pass solidified positive or negative affirmations, but if this is any indication of his judgment, God help us.
quote:Once again, I will wait until he is in term to pass solidified positive or negative affirmations, but if this is any indication of his judgment, God help us.
Aeras, I agree on this worrying flaw of Obamas. At best his discernment is absolutely appalling. The importance of being a person of sound judgement and discernment was completely washed over in this election drive with a media so obsessed with proving Palins ignorance. Obama has consistently proved ignorant (at best. God help you if he actually has a sinister agenda) in choosing pals and associates.
Check out this link now because it'll no doubt disappear, but I'll put up the text anyway.
"For an ambitious and savvy politician, Barack Obama has not picked his friends wisely. They include an assortment of influence-peddlers, terrorists and an Iraqi billionaire.
The jury has been selected and opening arguments heard, Thursday in the corruption trial of Antonin Tony Rezko. If the name doesn’t ring a bell it’s because the press hasn’t shown much interest in what has been considered a local Chicago story. But it has international and disturbing implications. Rezko was among Obamas earliest supporters. In 1995 when Obama ran for a seat in the Illinois Senate, Rezko through 2 of his companies gave Obama $2000. Obama won election in 1996 in a district that coincidently included 11 of Rezkos 30 low income housing projects. Rezko is known by the Chicago press as a “fixer” who can make things happen for a price. Little is done out of the goodness of his heart. He’s on trial for bilking up to $6 million dollars from the people of Illinios while working for the administration of current Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich.
Rezko and Obama would do business yet again. In 2005 when Rezko was under federal investigation for influence peddling in Blagojevichs administration, Obama and Rezkos wife Rita, bought adjacent pieces of property from a Chicago doctor. The doctor sold one parcel to Obama for $1.65 million, $300,000 below the asking price, while Rezkos wife paid full price, $625,000 for the adjacent vacant lot. Six months later Obama paid Rezkos wife $104,500 for a 10 foot wide strip of her land, allegedly so that he could have a bigger yard. The deal rendered the Rezkos parcel too small to build on, thereby increasing the value of Obamas property. What was Rezko expecting in return for this favour to Obama that made Rezkos parcel almost worthless?
An interesting sidebar to the deal, was that just weeks before, an Iraqi billionaire by the name of Nadhmi Auchi, who has a French conviction for corruption to his credit, had loaned Rezko $3.5 million through the Panamanian company, Fintrade Services FA.
A 2004 Pentagon report obtained by the Washington Times identified Auchi as a global arms dealer and Iraqi billionaire, who behind the façade of legitimate business served as Saddam Husseins principle international financial manipulator and bag man. The report states that significant and credible evidence has been developed that Nadhmi Auchi has been engaged in unlawful activities such as bribing foreign governments and individuals prior to Operation Iraqi Freedom to turn opinion against the Iraqi led mission to remove Saddam Hussein. He also helped arrange for significant from the Oil-for-food program to smuggle weapons and dual-use technology into Iraq. Yet Auchi despite his French conviction and other activities, was somehow able to get permission to come to Chicago in 2004. John Bachelor of Human Events, says that in April of 2004 Auchi met with Rezko, Gov. Blagojevich, State Senate president, Emil Jones jnr and reportedly then-State Sen. Obama, who’d just one the democratic US Senate nomination. The timing of the loan to Rezko and the Obama property purchase, along with the purchase of the land next door by Rezkos wife from the same seller, raises questions about whether Auchi helped by the house. It raises a lot of questions.
Why would an Iraqi billionaire, a “fixer” like Rezko and a Saddam protégé, be interested in a rising US politician who was also opposed to the ousting of Hussein by US forces? Why would an Iraqi billionaire loan that much money to Obamas fundraiser, Rezko, with the two buying adjacent properties from the same seller on the same day? Rezko has told a court that Auchi is a “close friend”. Obviously. Aside from the $3.5 million load Auchi and Rezko became partners in a Midwest pizzeria business. Through various dealings Rezko wound up owing Auchi more than $27 million. What did Auchi want in return? Perhaps a friend in the White House? Both Rezko and Auchi were and are involved in the business of buying influence.
Among Obama’s circle of friends is William C. Ayers, currently a professor of education at the University of Chicago and a former aide to Chicagos current mayor, Richard M. Daley. He served with Obama on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago. Back in the 1970’s he was known simply as Bill Ayers, a terrorist with the Weathermen who was quoted in the New York Times as finding “a certain eloquence in bombs”. Married to fellow Weathermen terrorist, Bernadine Dohrn, he writes openly about his role in the 1974 bombing of the US Capitol building. His memoirs appeared in the New York Times, oddly enough, on Sept 11, 2001. In them he wrote, “I don’t regret setting bombs, I didn’t feel we did enough.” Does Barack Obama agree?
The trial of an Illinois influence-peddler may answer the many questions that surround the past and future of Barack Obama. Clearly the friends he has chosen are not the friends of honest clean government or of the United States."
"Through your eyes, I saw within and found who I've become"
Posts: 3724 | Location: Brisbane, Australia | Registered: 07-26-02
Here we go, another bash thread by someone who is still upset that the old man didn't get elected.
I quit reading after the statement that people voted because of race and that Granholm was to blame for all of Michigans mishaps. Evidently you know nothing about our state and the history of the UAW and the previous government that led to the way things are today.
quote: Once again, I will wait until he is in term to pass solidified positive or negative affirmations, but if this is any indication of his judgment, God help us.
By posting this thread your jumping your own gun.
Posts: 4943 | Location: my enchanted forest | Registered: 09-14-02
This, while admittedly may seem like a bash thread, is an indication of what is wrong in the current mind of politics.
If I am not free to question the actions of the men and women who are purportedly governing me, then entire portions of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are invalidated.
This freedom is, in my eyes, also freedom from closed mindedness of people who support their candidate without critically examining his or her actions.
You should know that I didn't want McCain or Obama to win the election but my candidate was not on my ballot and therefore I was forced to vote between those two (or some minor third party I knew nothing about). Your bias by calling McCain the old man (while literally true) is evident in and of itself.
I never said Granholm was the blame for all of Michigan's mishaps, I said she is the perfect type of person to abuse government power through the power of pull. Her state has the highest unemployment rate and she wants to save its failing industries through government subsidy. If this doesn't scream wider government controls in the business sector to you then you are either ignorant of the ripple effects this would have or are intentionally ignoring them.
Its always the previous government's fault isn't it? Never the current administration, oh, unless its Bush of course.
You'll be happy to know I am none to fond of most of the labor unions in the U.S. so your mention of the UAW strengthens your bias in my eyes. I have lived one half hour south of Michigan for most of my life, its not hard to pick up on people's perceptions of their governor (the majority I have ever talked to) when you spend frequent time in the state. So before you assume someone from Ohio knows nothing, you should maybe bother to find out what they know instead of blindly dismissing them. Heck, maybe you want the foundation for wider government control to grasp around the U.S. and restrict our markets and base freedoms, all in the name of "protecting those freedoms and liberties", definitely.
And for your benefit, had Obama chosen someone I found to be of strong character or someone who has consistently made great choices in their career and had a good record in their governance, then this topic would have revolved around me questioning the doubts I have about Obama. It perhaps would be titled "Positive Possibilities?" or something of the like.
I can't speak for EE's contribution but maybe you should read the entire thread before making a rash judgment. If you know more about Granholm than you think I do, feel free to share your thoughts on why she is such a great governor and candidate to be in Obama's cabinet. If you can't, or you actually feel the way I do about her, please explain why you even bothered to reply with what you did, since you probably thought this thread was solely to bash Obama rather than critically analyze his poor (in my eyes) choice for advice.
President-elect Barack Obama will take office at a time when the U.S. economy is in very bad shape.
JOB: Unemplyment rate is 14-1/2 year high as of 6.5% And jobless rate is climing high with over 1 million job lost as per year.
GPA: US production going down. in 1990's 7% gpa now 0.3% We are not making any thing. Not even our own tooth paste. (China makes for us!)
Budget deficit: $988 billion budget deficit for fiscal 2009. remember we had $488 billion deficit in 2008 (ending: Sept.30, 2008) So Obama got double the deficit to start with than last year.
Market Index: even lowest than 1987 stock market crash. And it 's been low average since October.
Mass Layoffs: company with more than 50 people, hit the highest to cut the job.
Low consumer spending: With fuel price high, it fel to 0.3 % people spend money same as they did in 1952.
Home prices down: Home sale price fell down to 9% and new home 10% down from last year just in a year. Highest ever recorded drop.
Impact of outsourcing: Service activities 80% down for thier regular output in USA.
Credit crunch: More than 85% of domestic banks tightened on all kind of loans. And going to be worsening. Even The Federal Reserve has cut interest rates to 1 percent, it no help to boost economy. And no change so far...
So help us God!
Please people all of you: STOP!! This is a furious, snarled and mudslding towards Obama, who hasn't even begun to grasp the challenge that facing to him...!!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Brevity is the soul of wit. ~William Shakespeare
[This message was edited by doon1946 on 11-08-08 at 12:03 AM.]
Posts: 4232 | Location: Land of Lincoln, USA | Registered: 01-29-03
Please point out where I have used any mudslinging towards Obama?
Maybe a bit over-dramatic with the God help us line, but otherwise I am curious as to what you are referring to.
My posts are not furious, not even sure what you meant by snarled, and mudslinging is using potentially false or misleading information to paint a negative character assessment of an individual.
With all that you mentioned as far as the economic shape of America, Granholm's choice is more perplexing. As Sentra accurately pointed out, I don't know everything about the woman, I only know what I have learned from those who do know what she has done or failed to do and the state of the state she has been governing.
As I said before, expressing an opinion is not mudslinging or constitute an attack.
I was about to post this yesterday on BOH's O-O-O-O-O thread, but did not, because the man had not accepted yet.
But today its all out.
***
There's hope for all the republicans yet... especially the way Obama is going he looks to me more a rightwinger day by day. I really want to see some socialist/progressive outlook, but its really hard to see any light in that direction from where I stand.
Mr. Rahm Emanuel just accepted the post of Obama's Chief of Staff.
- Emanuel is a staunch advocate of Israel's occupation of Palestinian Territories. - Without Mr. Emanuel, Bill Clinton would have never been able to shove North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) down the throats of environmentalists and labour in the mid-90's - He was also involved in the bill ending Aid for Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), and Clinton's crime bill, among other legislations. - Leaving the administration in 1998, Mr. Emanuel worked as an investment banker in Chicago, where he amassed an $18 million fortune in less than three years prior to being elected to Congress. - He is the least progressive picks Obama could ever make, as his broader vision is more of war and corporate dominance. He was a major supporter of the Iraq War resolution that authorised the invasion of Iraq as a part of War on Terror and expanding US presence in Afghanistan.
Obama also has two men for his economy team in mind. From where I stand both seem poor choice to me, its corporation driven globalisation all over again, with names like Warren Buffet, Paul Volcker and Robert Rubin involved.
Today's local newspapers in India, were really going on about Indian born Sonal Shah who was previously an employee of Goldman Sachs being appointed as one of his advisory board members. Sonal Shah and her father are linked with the notorious right wing Vishwa Hindu Parishad(VHP).
The more I read about the people he is surrounding himself with, the more I feel he is inclined towards the same policies as Bush.
Aeras, EE and every other conservative here need not sweat over much, after all you guys seem to be getting exactly what you voted for.
-
much love, light and laughter, ananya.
*~Come play with my children feel the peace and Scatter some joy.~* ~*Blowing out someone else's candle doesn't make your's burn any brighter.*~ We can't all be stars, but we can all twinkle. We may not have it all together, but together we have it all.
Posts: 5819 | Location: India | Registered: 07-03-01
Coming from Mr. copy-and-paste-someone-else's opinion-of-Palin-and-McCain SetrObama, that's about as rich as an Indian capitalist! Remember Peekaboo Pam Atherton - aka Emily The Elephant, Sentra? You've posted 'bash' after 'bash' after 'bash', so you're the last person qualified to pull someone up for 'aving a go.
"I quit reading"... once you realised it wasn't a 'bashing' of Palin. Yeah, we knew.
Your trouble is, you're like most USians - you don't take the trouble to get involved enough and read enough to come to a conclusion based on information from a cross-section of media. You simply look for fingers that fit your gloves. In fact, considering the absolute privilege of being able to vote to elect the head of state of one's country, it's a bloody disgrace. It's one thing to be either a socialist or a capitalist; but to be ignorant of one's country's politics is a smack in the face for the hundreds of millions who are denied that privilege.
And one has to come from Michigan to have an opinion about your State? You think Aeras is ignorant, take him up!
And don't worry, Ananya, capitalism may take a slight knock, but it's safe in the hands of Obama. His illegally-living-in-the-US aunt - who he was obviously unaware of - can attest to the fact that her free home and handouts will always be there, as long as capitalism survives and there are scroungers to take advantage of it. And your business and wealth will survive, now that India's following suit.
"Defending the pillars of Saddam's power until the end, embracing the evil that their hatred of America makes them love."
Posts: 1375 | Location: England | Registered: 07-14-02
Quote by Aeras: ------------------------------ Hey Doon,
Please point out where I have used any mudslinging towards Obama? ------------------------------------- Sure!
Quote by Aeras: ------------------------------ Its too bad so many others voted based on race. ------------------------------------
Why did you bring race?
Quote by Aeras: -------------------------- Obama's apparent socialistic based ideals ------------------------------
Why not plane and simple say out right that he is communist. ( 'Give me a break') C'mon! Please, Aeras! that's enough.
Do you really believe that rich and poor will be one during his presidency?
Quote by Aeras: ----------------------------------------------- She has led Michigan into such a terrible state as to lead the nation in unemployment for the past three years ------------------------------------------------
Out right! Why didn't you think about economy as whole? nationwide crisis!
Quote by Aeras ------------------------------- Look I'm helping the auto-industries by giving them your money ----------------------------------------------- He hasn't done that yet! Now that's sarcasm!
Quote by Aeras: -------------------------------------- I'm also ever baffled why anyone votes for a candidate based on his or her "Job creation pledges." --------------------------------------------- Like Obama said if he spend money on domestic programs and less spending on the Iraq war. than yes, it will create the jobs.
Quote by Aeras: ----------------------------------------- I want to laugh in the faces of those who voted for him expecting something to change. ------------------------------------------------ Why? Because thing didn't go your way?
Let's face it! most likely nobody wanted to vote for Obama, but the vote was given to him because economy! And Mc cain/Palin made few blunders too!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Brevity is the soul of wit. ~William Shakespeare
Posts: 4232 | Location: Land of Lincoln, USA | Registered: 01-29-03
This, while admittedly may seem like a bash thread, is an indication of what is wrong in the current mind of politics.
If I am not free to question the actions of the men and women who are purportedly governing me, then entire portions of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are invalidated.
This freedom is, in my eyes, also freedom from closed mindedness of people who support their candidate without critically examining his or her actions.
You should know that I didn't want McCain or Obama to win the election but my candidate was not on my ballot and therefore I was forced to vote between those two (or some minor third party I knew nothing about). Your bias by calling McCain the old man (while literally true) is evident in and of itself.
I never said Granholm was the blame for all of Michigan's mishaps, I said she is the perfect type of person to abuse government power through the power of pull. Her state has the highest unemployment rate and she wants to save its failing industries through government subsidy. If this doesn't scream wider government controls in the business sector to you then you are either ignorant of the ripple effects this would have or are intentionally ignoring them.
Its always the previous government's fault isn't it? Never the current administration, oh, unless its Bush of course.
You'll be happy to know I am none to fond of most of the labor unions in the U.S. so your mention of the UAW strengthens your bias in my eyes. I have lived one half hour south of Michigan for most of my life, its not hard to pick up on people's perceptions of their governor (the majority I have ever talked to) when you spend frequent time in the state. So before you assume someone from Ohio knows nothing, you should maybe bother to find out what they know instead of blindly dismissing them. Heck, maybe you want the foundation for wider government control to grasp around the U.S. and restrict our markets and base freedoms, all in the name of "protecting those freedoms and liberties", definitely.
And for your benefit, had Obama chosen someone I found to be of strong character or someone who has consistently made great choices in their career and had a good record in their governance, then this topic would have revolved around me questioning the doubts I have about Obama. It perhaps would be titled "Positive Possibilities?" or something of the like.
I can't speak for EE's contribution but maybe you should read the entire thread before making a rash judgment. If you know more about Granholm than you think I do, feel free to share your thoughts on why she is such a great governor and candidate to be in Obama's cabinet. If you can't, or you actually feel the way I do about her, please explain why you even bothered to reply with what you did, since you probably thought this thread was solely to bash Obama rather than critically analyze his poor (in my eyes) choice for advice.
-Aeras
Thata boy, B!
Michigan was already in the crapper, but Granholm raised her dainty beauty pageant winning finger up to the lever and flushed away.
And I just knew you were a Romney supporter!
Great minds think alike.
~I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.~
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than to teach ten thousand stars how not to dance - e e cummings
Conferred the Walrus Memorial Award - 6th April, 2004.
Posts: 1953 | Location: On a tree branch.....way up high. | Registered: 11-12-02
I want to ask you, why do you consider socialism progressive? I want to understand this from your perspective.
quote:here's hope for all the republicans yet... especially the way Obama is going he looks to me more a rightwinger day by day.
I do not consider myself a "rightwinger" although I am sure there are some here who would say I am because they don't understand or know my positions other than my opposition to Obama and support for free-market capitalism, two things that are congruent in my eyes.
I don't know much about Rahm Emanuel and certainly not enough to comment so I will reserve my opinion on him for the moment.
quote:Aeras, EE and every other conservative here need not sweat over much, after all you guys seem to be getting exactly what you voted for.
Quite the contrary Ananya. As I've stated before I didn't want McCain or Obama to win. I do not affiliate with every conservative point, view, and position just as I do not associate with every liberal point, view, and position.
As just about anyone can see, most of our arguments or cases for distress revolve around what economic system is employed. Proponents for all and out socialism and communism always paint a rosey picture of how it brings humanity together, how no one is hindered or singled out and how all class barriers are destroyed. I would like for them to point out where this has ever happened on Earth. These systems, depending on severity of implementation often lead to a stagnating economic profile and wider class gaps because the humanist leaders end up seizing control of all economic enterprise and keeping the wealth for themselves. This then becomes mis-construed as a poster child for capitalism even though that system of economic governance has no part in what happens under these systems of rule.
So no, Obama is not what I wanted or wished for this country.
Doon,
quote:Quote by Aeras: ------------------------------ Its too bad so many others voted based on race. ------------------------------------
Why did you bring race?
I brought it up because so many others did. You seem slightly defensive on this point. Everyone who voted for Obama because he is black, and wanted "change" in regards to historical significance, got what they wanted and are racists for it. Anyone who voted for Obama based on his positions (albeit I don't personally understand why they would) are the types of people I can back as far as choosing in an informed and intelligent manner. I'm guessing since you are from Illinois, and possibly Chicago (I don't know what city), you feel some closer tie to the fact that the candidate from your state/city won. I may be wrong, please correct me if I am.
quote:Quote by Aeras: -------------------------- Obama's apparent socialistic based ideals ------------------------------
Why not plane and simple say out right that he is communist. ( 'Give me a break') C'mon! Please, Aeras! that's enough.
Do you really believe that rich and poor will be one during his presidency?
Communism and Socialism are not the same thing even if one does lead to the other if implemented as fully as it possibly can be.
Once again you seem highly defensive on this issue. I stated what I did because Obama openly made statements about spreading the wealth, i.e. socialism. So if you can find any actual faults with what I said in regards to being true, please share.
quote:Quote by Aeras: ----------------------------------------------- She has led Michigan into such a terrible state as to lead the nation in unemployment for the past three years ------------------------------------------------
Out right! Why didn't you think about economy as whole? nationwide crisis!
If you want we can discuss the main roots of the loan crises, but I doubt you would be receptive to what I would say on those issues. I didn't consider the economy as a whole because the governor responsible for the entire U.S. economy doesn't exist (possibly this could be considered the presidential position, but all anyone criticizes in Bush's actions and don't look back to Carter's or Clinton's involvement in our current crises). I criticized Obama on his choice because of whom he chose as a source for advice. Her state has had such problems much longer than the crises has had widespread effects.
She was elected attorney general in 1998 and served in the position from 1999-2002. In 2002 she successfully ran for Governor and has held the position since. So if you honestly feel that holding that position for the last six years still relegates all the fault and blame to the last administration as Sentra proposed, or that she has done such wonderfully amazing things for Michigan, please expound those views for all of our benefits.
I would be happy to cite some of her blunders for you should you desire or should anyone else propose she is such a wonderful candidate for consideration for President-elect Obama's cabinet.
Pam,
Its good to see you posting again. I must admit Romney also wasn't my first choice but he wasn't completely out of the picture.
So Granholm is a state governor, has won a beauty pageant, and is a terrible choice for a Washington leadership position. Doesn't this sound like all the criteria that people were bashing Palin for?
I liked your metaphor .
-Aeras
[This message was edited by Aeras on 11-08-08 at 01:15 PM.]
Quote by Aeras: ----------------------------------------------- Everyone who voted for Obama because he is black, and wanted "change" in regards to historical significance, ------------------------------------------- If that is fact than we are not judging a person on good character, knowledge, skills. That's too bad!
Quote by Aeras: ------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm guessing since you are from Illinois, and possibly Chicago (I don't know what city), you feel some closer tie to the fact that the candidate from your state/city won. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kind of... But not going ga ga over it!
Like I visited Paris in late 70's and people connected Chicago to Al capone. Than in late 90's it was Michael Jordan's Chicago now may be Obama's Chicago! When you are away from home that gives you a sense of belonging, I guess!
Quote by Aeras: ------------------------- Once again you seem highly defensive on this issue. ------------------------------ I'll be careless! But right is right.
Quote by Aeras: ------------------------------------------- I criticized Obama on his choice because of whom he chose as a source for advice. ---------------------------------------- Obama has to know everything. Failed policy as well most successful policy! Than he has to decide. But asking failure person is not a bad idea. may be not now but may be one day you will agree with me!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Brevity is the soul of wit. ~William Shakespeare
Posts: 4232 | Location: Land of Lincoln, USA | Registered: 01-29-03
quote:Quote by Aeras: ----------------------------------------------- Everyone who voted for Obama because he is black, and wanted "change" in regards to historical significance, ------------------------------------------- If that is fact than we are not judging a person on good character, knowledge, skills. That's too bad!
If you are going to quote someone, you should quote all relevant parts of what they said. The sentence was cut off before it should have been.
Also, there are people who voted for Obama for the right reasons, and some who voted for him or against him for the wrong reasons. You're odd quarrel with the validity of this fact is, well, odd.
quote:Quote by Aeras: ------------------------------------------- I criticized Obama on his choice because of whom he chose as a source for advice. ---------------------------------------- Obama has to know everything. Failed policy as well most successful policy! Than he has to decide. But asking failure person is not a bad idea. may be not now but may be one day you will agree with me!
You don't seek advice from someone who has reasonably failed at what you are asking advice for. You can study their mistakes and learn from them, but seeking a faulty source in order to help improve your plans rather than simply talking to them to learn from them will almost never lead to anything more than those faulty judgments being incorporated into your actions. Considering Granholm for a cabinet position indicates Barack is seeking more than just brief advice from which to learn, he wishes to make Granholm a significant part of his future decision making.
If this is how one improves the world, then I ask you to fly in an airplane made from inferior parts and of improper design, just to learn from the flaws.
The core of Michigans economy revolves around the auto industry. For the past few decades Chrysler, Ford and General Motors have not practiced good buisness tactics and its come around to bite them in the ass.
Once the auto industry begins to fail, the trickle down effect is felt by everyone. Granholm was not part of the management team for these corporations so that part of the problem can not be her weight to carry. Granholm did not order them to build huge SUV's and shabby cars that nobody cared to buy.
Now to Mr. afenton, it is true that I was hard on Palin, sorry if that bothered you. It seems though that no matter what Sentrawoods posts, your quick to bash me, nothing new, its been going on for years now. But I have to say, anyone who thinks that Palin was qualified to be a VP and hails her as an up and coming star, can't be taken seriously, not by me anyhow.
So go ahead and bash, bash, bash Sentrawoods, I will no longer address your posts because they mean nothing to me.
No further comment.
Posts: 4943 | Location: my enchanted forest | Registered: 09-14-02
To be not taken seriously by you is indeed a compliment. And don't take it so seriously - I deal with anyone with no ideas of his or her own with the same casual dismissal; you're far from alone. There, now don't you feel better??
"No further comment" tends to mean one is attempting to save face while leaving a debate or general discussion.
Bash, bash.
"Defending the pillars of Saddam's power until the end, embracing the evil that their hatred of America makes them love."
Posts: 1375 | Location: England | Registered: 07-14-02
Electing Obama as President of the USA springs to mind; never happened before, therefore totally original. Naturally, the pros and cons of said election are relevant (relevance), as is the electability of a woman from Alaska. And so on and so forth. Copying and pasting is not debate, and nor is it generally discussing, it is merely lazy and pointless. One owes it to the site, and far more to the country one lives in, surely, to at least read or watch or listen to enough to arrive at an educated 'conclusion'. Wouldn't you agree, Asa? Isn't looking for what one wishes to find rather lazy and pointless, and the result of an already made up mind - one closed to change or argument? Doesn't electing the most powerful person in the world deserve the voter's utmost attention and open mind?
"Defending the pillars of Saddam's power until the end, embracing the evil that their hatred of America makes them love."
Posts: 1375 | Location: England | Registered: 07-14-02
quote:Having said that, I do not agree that Michigans bad economy was all her fault. Governor Granholm has made some very good moves for our state.
I seriously question if you are residing in the same state as I, Sentra. Quite possibly it is the state of denial.
Gov. Granholm has the worst record of any Michigan Governor. She talks a big game but fails short at actually getting anything done other to go back on her words.
Your taxes were raised....that was one thing she accomplished.
She made promises not to raise taxes during her last campaign. She was adamant about that during her debate with DeVos. She also promised not to cut healthcare or schools.
Ha! I hope you are enjoying taking part in the paying of more than $800 million in taxes with another $600 million in sales tax alone.
I know I am.....it just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to be lied to. Doesn't it you?
Now that Obama has been elected president, she's hanging on his every word that he'll help the auto industry. She's now going to rely on a handout from the government to help get this state out of the mess it's in.
I do however wonder if she would even consider the job. She'd lose her free housing.
~I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.~
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than to teach ten thousand stars how not to dance - e e cummings
Conferred the Walrus Memorial Award - 6th April, 2004.
Posts: 1953 | Location: On a tree branch.....way up high. | Registered: 11-12-02
quote: Your taxes were raised....that was one thing she accomplished.
She made promises not to raise taxes during her last campaign. She was adamant about that during her debate with DeVos. She also promised not to cut healthcare or schools.
Ha! I hope you are enjoying taking part in the paying of more than $800 million in taxes with another $600 million in sales tax alone.
I know I am.....it just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to be lied to. Doesn't it you?
I do agree that Granholm did raise certain taxes and that she needed to in order to keep our state functioning because of the lost revenue from the auto industry who's failure was not her fault. But because I love this state and where I live, the sacrifice for me is worth it.
I bought a beautiful home in the woods on the water where wildlife abounds, my dream come true. I firmly belive that should one lose in one area, they should strive to be proactive and gain in another. Knowing that not everyone can be as fortunate as myself, I work to contribute and donate to causes that will help those in need whenever possible.
Michigan is still a great state and I have faith that in one form or another it will bounce back to higher standards for everyone.
Posts: 4943 | Location: my enchanted forest | Registered: 09-14-02
quote:Once the auto industry begins to fail, the trickle down effect is felt by everyone. Granholm was not part of the management team for these corporations so that part of the problem can not be her weight to carry. Granholm did not order them to build huge SUV's and shabby cars that nobody cared to buy.
No, but she did lower the incentives for businesses to locate or stay in Michigan. She refused to even meet with some industry leaders including Honda Motor. How many potential jobs were lost then?
When was the last time you went to an all American apple pie baseball game? Wow, but the tax on those tickets probably dug deep in to your wallet didn't they? And if you could afford to attend a Tiger's game, you would have noticed the name of the fancy new ballpark. Comerica Park right?
That's the same Comerica that used to have it's headquarters based right here in Detroit? The same Comerica that packed it's bags and shuffled on south to Dallas shortly after Granholm raised the bussiness tax. Can't really blame them, though. They can hardly make a profit in a state that has nothing and no one to profit from.
In 2005, Michigan ranked 48th in the nation in personal income growth. We are now ranked 49th.
Thata girl,Jenny, only two more to go!
~I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.~
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than to teach ten thousand stars how not to dance - e e cummings
Conferred the Walrus Memorial Award - 6th April, 2004.
Posts: 1953 | Location: On a tree branch.....way up high. | Registered: 11-12-02
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing 
