He was a music legend, a poverty giver, the King of Pop, and the Prince of Artifice. He was the first to create a color music video. He pleaded an easier path for blacks and whites. He taught the world to love everyone and leave no one out. He gave more than he had. He rose every time we denied him, he stepped up every time we stomped on him, he counted himself back in every time we counted him out. Known for giving poverty so much that he is the first pop star to give more to poverty than any other pop star.

I know he had those moments where people have blamed him for touching children, but I do not believe he molested them. I believe he just so happen to care to much and got to close. He spent to much time with children and being very wealthy at the time-cursed him. He was crazy at some point, but he was an honest caring man.

I believe him to be an icon for the world and maybe the last of his kind. No, one will ever match his heart.

Michael Jackson was a pop star. In my opinion he was largely over rated as a music legend, poverty giver, King of Pop and Prince of Artifice. He is not in the same elite category as Elvis Presley but his life followed a similar pattern and a similar fate. In the 1980’s his following was a very young audience, mostly pre-teen children. He was a “white star” in the sense that most of his audience was white.

If there is any truth in the notion that money could not buy happiness then M.J. would be the epitome of such a notion. It has been reported that his estate was over 400 million in debt at the time of his death. It there is any truth in the adage, the bigger they come the harder they fall, then M.J. is a classic example of such an adage.

The scandals surrounding his latter life over shadowed much of his fame. That dark cloud also contibuted immensly to the loss of his wealth. The high school that he attended in Santa Barbra, California was named after him but not long after his arrest the sign was taken down and the school was renamed. His public image was enhanced largely by clever and aggressive public relations schemes but he was no Saint Michael. If there was ever an example of a “darling of the media” then M.J. was indeed a “darling” (at least until his sins caught up with him).

I regard M.J. as a victim of his own success. He is just another casualty of fame and fortune. Personally I think that it was not appropriate to allow M.J. to perform at half time during the Super Bowl. The pro football audience would probably agree with me.

I am a pro football audience and I disagree with you.

Another thing, when he was singing and dancing everyone at the super bowl was screaming and yelling. They loved him at that time and wanted him there; truly, that's all that matters. Not your opinion now!

Money did not buy M.J. happiness, but instead a chance to give. If you check it out he has given more than he has ever spent. He has giving more than any pop star in history. Also, if you had the kind of money he had and at one moment you lost the hope to continue what you love doing such as music then you too would be in debt. Without a doubt in my mind I believe it.

A school had taken down a sign, a name, an icon, a music legend, and more. Cowardly, they backed on him, without the slightest proof of him being guilty. How cowardly it is to back out on an insane man who has given so much more to those in need than his own self. A sick man who gave so much was stepped on by those who thought they were better because they were more sane than him. How insane of them, how stupid of them, and most; importantly, how cowardly of them.

He believed that a child was dear to life and must be loved closely. Perhaps a little to close, but never in a molested manner. None of those kids said anything about him touching their privates. One claimed that Jackson gave him “a hug and a kiss to the cheek.” I’ve hugged my friend children and kissed them on the cheek to say goodbye and if that’s a crime then I am guilty as charged.

Jackson only wanted the best for the children of the world and because of his insanity he got to close to-to many children and this is what caused the up raise against him… Other than that he was a good man. A good music legend.

Billions of people would agree with me.

Also, what makes Elvis any better than M.J.?

Well, he is considered an icon but I don't understand why. I am quite surprised at how much people love him and/or his music because, to me, all that has been visible for quite a few years now is a sorry mess. Never mind the sexual allegations and the catastrophic face, his creative output has been very dull since, well, since the early 90s at best. I guess it also depends on what people consider an icon to be. What does he represent to people, what makes him an icon? To me an icon needs to have strength and power, a little something extra-human. MJ seemed more like a weak victim... I don't mean to diss him as a human being, but he's just no icon in my eyes.

JL
My Out of Body Experience site.

Well I've been to the home of the King of Rock an Roll, Memorial Day 2006. The grounds were full of people from all over the U.S. and abroad. The most impressive thing about Graceland was the halls of the Trophy Room. The Trophy Room was a building adjacent to Graceland. The walls of those long halls were lined with gold, silver and platinum records. Elvis is billed to be the only muscian/entertainer to be inducted into four music halls of fame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis

It was reported that only 1000 people attended the memorial service for M.J. in L.A. The L.A police spent 5 million on security in anticipation of 150,000 people attending.

An Icon he was, because he broke barriers for blacks and whites. He brought them together. He was the first black man on the cover of Rolling Stones. He gave to poverty and more.

Do you know why he hid his children faces?

Because he wanted for them to be free from his prison. Hoping the world would never be able to shut them into a tiny hole and insult their characters. Insult them for who they become. He was known throughout the World not just in America and or Britain. This is a man who was so famous that the world knew him and anywhere he went he was locked away by a crowd of people.

Now, Michael is gone and his father is telling the world that Michael’s son (Blanket) has mastered all the skills to the Great King of Pop music. Something Michael, never wanted the world to know. Now they have seen the faces and now; clearly, will the world ever let them be free.

He cared for two that were not even his own. Still he loved them the best could and educated them better than most people get in the world. His children are said to be brilliant.

An Icon is someone who tries to make the world a better place and Michael Jackson tried. Maybe he only succeeded on a few, but he tried. His music will forever be heard and people who love his music are likely to keep to his music. He gave children an education they can proud of. He gave them more than any other person has.

What more can one expect? He was a son, a brother, an uncle, a father, and a friend. This is an icon.

For example, my father is an icon, but maybe not you; however to me and his family he is which makes him one.

An Icon is a hero in many ways, but sometimes his other side is just too deep in the ground that no one notices and or dares to consider the good things he done.

Phantom_Delta, indeed without doubt Elvis was famous. Indeed he has records that Michael does not have; however, Jackson has records that Elvis does not have.

But let's not get into this. Because I do not disagree with what you are saying, but I question his life outside of music.

He was a drunk, a drug addict, and so much more. He had his weak sides. Back in time he also had his enemies, which were a lot like Michael Jackson's enemies. Looking at many years later he does not have the same amount of enemies and neither will Jackson in the years to come.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Topgun,

1.Define icon. It's a bit subjective. Do you like him because he created a colored music video or do you like him simple because he is MJ? It seems like you like him emotionally more so than rationally. This is true for just about everyone but this is why the word icon is subjective.
2. How the world view him as an icon the day before he died and the day after. Is he simply an icon because he was a black guy in white magazie?
3. "Show them how funky strong is your fight ... it doesn't matter who's wrong or right just beat it".

“Phantom_Delta, indeed without doubt Elvis was famous. Indeed he has records that Michael does not have; however, Jackson has records that Elvis does not have.”

Prove to me that Michael Jackson’s success exceeded that of Elvis Presley. (And while are at it why don't you show us valid figurres of how much M.J. donated to poverty.) M.J. was an Elvis wannabe. He even married Elvis’s daughter Lisa Marie. After he married her he bought the bronze statue of Elvis and relocated it to someplace obscure. Who knows where the statue is now? Elvis made 31 movies and they were all regarded as commercial successes. Elvis had more talent in his middle finger than M.J. had in his entire skeletal system. Elvis agreed to go into the Army when he was drafted. He spent years in Germany in an armored tank division. The music of Elvis is still thriving after more than 30 years after his death. Graceland is billed to be the second most visited house in the U.S. Graceland is up there with the White House and the Biltmore House. M.J. never walked on the moon but he made the moonwalk famous. M.J. was nothing but a hound dog. He never caught a rabbit and he was no friend of mine.

You ain't nothing but a hound dog, crying all the time
You ain't nothing but a hound dog, crying all the time
Well, you ain't never caught a rabbit,
and you ain't no friend of mine
They said you were high class, honey that was just a lie
Called you all high class, that was just a lie
You ain't never caught a rabbit,
and you ain't no friend of mine
They said you were high class, honey that was just a lie
Called you all high class, that was just a lie
You ain't never caught a rabbit,
and you ain't no friend of mine
You ain't nothing but a hound dog, crying all the time
You ain't nothing but a hound dog, crying all the time
Well, you ain't never caught a rabbit,
and you ain't no friend of mine

I'd go along with that PD.

Though I don't think one should make comparisons - I do it myself.

Friends and I talk about the famous who left early - especially John Lennon, Bob Marley and Jimmy Hendrix, three of my icons. Their music I would listen to, not Jackson's. They had something to say, Jackson (in my opinion) did not.

Elvis Presley could not moonwalk... for me that's enough, to not call him an icon.

Seriously, MJ gave a whole new dimension to breakdance. I don't particularly endorse what he did in his private life, but I wholly feel he was the king of break dance. I totally totally love his albums - Thriller and Dangerous.

As compared, Elvis does not stand anywhere in my books. <--- emphasis on "my books". Meaning, its personal opinion, who likes whom? There will always be those who like Elvis, and there will always be those who think the sun shone out of MJ, does this make a good debate... is what I am wondering.

-

much love, light and laughter,
ananya.

I noticed this and thought it would be interesting, so here's my own 2c worth.

I never did, and never will like Elvis Presley and I remember him right from the start. I never went to his movies except Jailhouse Rock, because I was dragged there by two elder cousines, and I don't own a single recording of his - it's a matter of who we like and dislike as performers, so it's very much a personal thing. He sang some nice ballads, but so did many others.

Incidentally, I absolutely love rock and roll, blues and jazz, I just never got the whole Elvis thing, but I have no problem with those who do - that's their choice.

I only have one MJ album and that is Thriller, I thought it was terrific when it came out, and I still think it ranks as terrific. His moves on the videos were just fantastic.

Do I think he is an icon - no I most certainly do not. I rarely would say that any pop star or rock star was an icon, but I have no problem if that's how they are perceived by others - each to their own.

Does this sound like a good debate to me - no it does not. I think Michael Jackson would have been successful right up until his death if he had never stopped performing - others who have reached 50 and beyond still perform because frankly they just never stopped, and I think that was a mistake on his part.

Most of us will remember the media and press interest when he was on trial for child molestation. I think he loves children, but I do not think he ever molested any of them and I've always thought so, mentally he was little more than a child himself at times.

I think there is an awful lot more to come out as to exactly what led up to, and caused his death.

quote:

If there is any truth in the notion that money could not buy happiness then M.J. would be the epitome of such a notion. It has been reported that his estate was over 400 million in debt at the time of his death. It there is any truth in the adage, the bigger they come the harder they fall, then M.J. is a classic example of such an adage.

PD,

I hadn't considered MJ in either a positive or negative sense in his life. I liked some songs but largely didn't listen to his music for no reason other than I was never much exposed to it in my daily life.

This factoid you have supplied is incorrect however. Its amazing how negative connotations pervade the media and our lives.

Yes, MJ had 500 million in Debt. But his Estate was worth over 1 billion. Now, when you take 1 billion and subtract 500 million, doesn't that equate a 500 million net worth? The media only focuses on the debt and not his equity or other sources of wealth.

His recording rights, royalties etc are estimated to be worth over 2 Billion dollars and he has over 100 tracks never released that will also profit greatly, probably more so after his demise.

As I said before, I never followed much the life of Michael Jackson but it pays to know a little bit about the man before you suggest what are fallacies.

As far as the scandal overshawdowing his fame, this is only partially true. Some generations will remember him for his music while others will primarily remember him for his notoriety. Its just a matter of what era you were born in.

quote:

As far as the scandal overshawdowing his fame, this is only partially true. Some generations will remember him for his music while others will primarily remember him for his notoriety. Its just a matter of what era you were born in.

-Aeras

M.J.was 51 years old when he kicked the bucket. He was only one year younger than me so that means that we were born in the same era.

quote:

Prove to me that Michael Jackson’s success exceeded that of Elvis Presley. (And while are at it why don't you show us valid figurres of how much M.J. donated to poverty.) M.J. was an Elvis wannabe. He even married Elvis’s daughter Lisa Marie. After he married her he bought the bronze statue of Elvis and relocated it to someplace obscure. Who knows where the statue is now? Elvis made 31 movies and they were all regarded as commercial successes. Elvis had more talent in his middle finger than M.J. had in his entire skeletal system. Elvis agreed to go into the Army when he was drafted. He spent years in Germany in an armored tank division. The music of Elvis is still thriving after more than 30 years after his death. Graceland is billed to be the second most visited house in the U.S. Graceland is up there with the White House and the Biltmore House. M.J. never walked on the moon but he made the moonwalk famous. M.J. was nothing but a hound dog. He never caught a rabbit and he was no friend of mine.

I never said, Jackson was more famous than Elvis. At least I know I don't stand here insulting a legend and an icon such as Elvis. I respect them both for what they have done. They created music that brought the world together. This is all I care about. I define them both as icons of music and legends of their times.

When I said "what makes Elvis better than Jackson," I did not mean their success in life, but them as being humans and humans they were; however, they were humans who made mistakes.

Well said, Mrs. Micawber.

quote:

M.J.was 51 years old when he kicked the bucket. He was only one year younger than me so that means that we were born in the same era.

Then you'll remember him as you please and I as I please. I am 31 years younger than you and this is my era. Maybe Aeras is correct or maybe I am just young and foolish?

Maybe 31 years in the future Elvis will be older and worth more, but MJ will be right behind him.

Also, everyone keeps asking if this is much of a debate and my answer is simple.

No other debate topics are being used as of now.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun:

quote:

Prove to me that Michael Jackson’s success exceeded that of Elvis Presley. (And while are at it why don't you show us valid figurres of how much M.J. donated to poverty.) M.J. was an Elvis wannabe. He even married Elvis’s daughter Lisa Marie. After he married her he bought the bronze statue of Elvis and relocated it to someplace obscure. Who knows where the statue is now? Elvis made 31 movies and they were all regarded as commercial successes. Elvis had more talent in his middle finger than M.J. had in his entire skeletal system. Elvis agreed to go into the Army when he was drafted. He spent years in Germany in an armored tank division. The music of Elvis is still thriving after more than 30 years after his death. Graceland is billed to be the second most visited house in the U.S. Graceland is up there with the White House and the Biltmore House. M.J. never walked on the moon but he made the moonwalk famous. M.J. was nothing but a hound dog. He never caught a rabbit and he was no friend of mine.

I never said, Jackson was more famous than Elvis. At least I know I don't stand here insulting a legend and an icon such as Elvis. I respect them both for what they have done. They created music that brought the world together. This is all I care about. I define them both as icons of music and legends of their times.

When I said "what makes Elvis better than Jackson," I did not mean their success in life, but them as being humans and humans they were; however, they were humans who made mistakes.

Well said, Mrs. Micawber.

quote:

M.J.was 51 years old when he kicked the bucket. He was only one year younger than me so that means that we were born in the same era.

Then you'll remember him as you please and I as I please. I am 31 years younger than you and this is my era. Maybe Aeras is correct or maybe I am just young and foolish?

Maybe 31 years in the future Elvis will be older and worth more, but MJ will be right behind him.

You said "well said Mrs. Micawber" - what did I say well?

You said "well said Mrs. Micawber" - what did I say well?

How about ... I never did, and never will like Elvis Presley - Mrs. Micawber.

quote:

You said "well said Mrs. Micawber" - what did I say well?

Everything is well said on your post. I tried to find something to disagree with you on your post, but I found it unreasonable because you do not pick a side, but you tell how you have never really understood what was so great about Elvis. You told us the only reason you like Jackson, but at the same time you kept it cool by saying they both weren't icons.

quote:

How about ... I never did, and never will like Elvis Presley - Mrs. Micawber.

I found it funnier everytime I come on quoteland, because it seems I love the way you respond to everything.

But sorry because your answer is far from the truth.